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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#641

Post by dghlsakjg »

nprateem wrote: post #377
giarc wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your first example, I suspect there was probably other things present you weren't made aware of. Currently the requirements in Canada include (only copy those relevant to your example). -have a serious and incurable illness, disease or disability (excluding a mental illness until March 17, 2027) -be in an advanced state of irreversible decline in capability -have enduring and intolerable physical or psychological…

It sounds like the last one is the get out of jail free card.

That isn’t the full list, and all of the criteria must be met, not just one of them.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#642

Post by mattmaroon »

int_19h wrote: post #532
karencarits wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many sensible arguments both for and against. BBC has a very short review of some main arguments for and against: * For: https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/euthanasia/infavour/infavour_1.... * Against: https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/euthanasia/against/against_1.sh...

Most of these aren't sensible.

They really aren’t, I can’t believe someone here would link that.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#643

Post by DanHulton »

llamaLord wrote: post #574
pj_mukh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming. As much as we begged him for more time, he didn't want any of it. Till his dying breath he kept repeating how thankful he was that he lived in a country that didn't force him to live on when he didn't want to. He was a clear Track 1 case, and I realize Track…

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods.

As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for someone finally being able to reach out for help, there are also the stories where people have been reaching out for help forever, and help's just not coming. Where they can't afford the medication, or no medication seems to work, or they have an addiction problem and there just isn't any way for them to get into a treatment program, etc.

Not to mention the stories where their attempt left them powerfully sick and/or disabled. We're talking near-miss fatalities here -- recovery from those is rarely painless, quick, or complete.

This isn't a case of medical professionals and program officials just not caring. These eligibility criteria are very carefully considered. In fact, they're SO carefully considered that they've delayed eligibility for MAID due solely to mental illness THREE TIMES to ensure proper safeguards are in place. Currently, it's pushed back to 2027, so we're not even talking about anything that is even a present-day concern.

(https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html#s1_1)

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#644

Post by svieira »

bongodongobob wrote: post #341
hattmall wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that every OB/GYN has seen patients that regret the decision. And for most they will have seen instances where that regret ultimately led to suicide. Do you really want to be the doctor that didn't press for more consideration for a patient that ultimately takes their own life? I get the idea of giving women control but as a doctor it's also their right to refuse a procedure to not bear that burden. It's…

You can't regret dying. Let people do what they want.

Oh, you absolutely can.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#646

Post by lolinder »

amenhotep wrote: post #536
lolinder wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like with so many things, what terrifies me is where you draw the line. The cases you're describing—where someone currently has to choose between paying ridiculous amounts of money to continue living in pain while confined to a hospital bed versus dying in terrible pain because the doctors are forbidden from helping you along—these are the easy ones. But we also have stories here of people deciding to die while they'…

I can't adequately express my revulsion at the idea that "net loss to the state" ever must overrule my autonomy to the extent that I'm not even allowed to die. What entitlement.

Entitlement is exactly my issue with radical individualism.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#647

Post by bigstrat2003 »

AzzyHN wrote: post #599
nashashmi wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we killed all the homeless people, would our social problems be over? Sick thought. I know. But a part of me blindly believes that our problems will become worse.

Be coming homeless isn't a problem with the person, it's an outcome of the system we live in. The population of homeless people would end up probably where it was when you killed them all. Though I do wonder how long that would take

> Be coming homeless isn't a problem with the person, it's an outcome of the system we live in.

Like most things in life, I don't think it's as simple as that. I think it's a complex mishmash of systemic factors and individual choices that cohere into a big ball of suffering.

For example, I had a close family member who was an alcoholic. He couldn't keep a job because of his drinking problem, and wound up going through all his friends and family who would take him in (before wearing out his welcome at each place in turn). He was getting put out of the last place he had available, basically, when he died suddenly. But if he hadn't died he would've been homeless. Was this a problem with the system? Maybe - he had a pretty good support network, but you could make a decent case that if we had the right support system in place at the right time it would've helped him. But also, there was absolutely an element of choice to it. I have a lot of sympathy for the guy, because addiction is a bitch. But systems of life or no, he made choices at various points that led him to the point of homelessness. A different person in the same circumstances very well might have had a different ending to their story.

I don't think blaming the homeless is productive, certainly. Their lives are shit and they don't need someone smugly telling them "just do better bro". So I do think that trying to improve the system we live in is just about all we can do (that, and be compassionate to people we meet). But unfortunately I also think it's not realistic to expect any amount of systemic change to be able to solve the problem.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#648

Post by [deleted] »

llamaLord wrote: post #574
pj_mukh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming. As much as we begged him for more time, he didn't want any of it. Till his dying breath he kept repeating how thankful he was that he lived in a country that didn't force him to live on when he didn't want to. He was a clear Track 1 case, and I realize Track…

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

[deleted]

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#649

Post by dghlsakjg »

standardUser wrote: post #497
dogman1050 wrote: post #119

After watching my father die with COPD, it because obvious that euthanasia happens in the US all the time. He opted out of lung-reduction surgery and was ready to die. So the hospital withheld IV hydration and provided a morphine drip and he was gone in 36 hours. How long can one live without water, a few days max? So that's what killed him. My sister-in-law who's a physician told me that's how it's typically done. I…

> So the hospital withheld IV hydration and provided a morphine drip and he was gone in 36 hours. I watched loved ones die this way. It's cruel, absurd and grotesque. A doctor will look you dead in the eye and say "your loved one will be dead within a few days" and instead of killing them mercifully you are forced to watch them die of dehydration. A maddening and indefensible relic that I believe younger generations…

My BIL is a head hospice nurse.

If it helps, they don’t ever deny people fluids who want or need them. What happens towards the end is the body stops being able to process fluids due to failing organs. Pushing fluids into someone in this state makes them less comfortable. People aren’t thirsty or suffering from a lack of fluids.

As far as putting someone out of their misery, there’s a reason that they put them on high dosage opioids. If you want to keep someone out of pain while helping their heart and lungs stop peacefully, you couldn’t pick a better drug.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#650

Post by carlosjobim »

jen729w wrote: post #469
eastbound wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…

> Easy fraud for doctors, with plenty of incentives to commit it, and the highest consequences for the victim. I find this a bizarre way to assume that a person who has committed their entire lives to helping people would behave.

Have you never heard of eugenics in the 1900s? The most highly respected doctors working for the most highly respected governments were sterilizing, surgically dehumanizing and murdering men, women and small children for the greater good of society. Doctors being some kind of benevolent super-humans is a cartoon fantasy.
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