Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

Hi drewwwwww,

TL;DR - sexism can be a misnomer/umbrella term, and that is my main gripe. When something is indeed sexist, I would readily call that out. For example, not hiring a qualified female based on her sex qualifies as sexism to me.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I totally agree that it is not an isolated incident, and thus any knowing female should expect it to happen in similar circumstances. Like I have said in other replies several times, I never justify or condone the behavior, I only seek to explain it. It is "expected" behavior - as in, if I were a female in Las Vegas in a bar full of drunk males, I would expect a certain level of crassness (not justified crassness, but crassness). I think her cards are a potentially good idea, with some modifications. Red, yellow, green (like a stop light) would be a great mechanism for males, because honestly much of the time we are just clueless or naive. Flagging males as sexual offenders or creeps is a bit questionable for being hit on in a bar.

Also as I pointed out in other comments, sexism is different from sexual harassment, sexual exploitation, misogyny, and sexual advances. There are plenty of cases of sexism, but I do not think getting hit on rudely in a bar is necessarily sexist (unless the male somehow makes you feel inferior because of your sex, but usually it is just a crass way of throwing a compliment).

Males are actually held very accountable in our current legal system (in the US, at least). Rape cases tend to favor the female (as with the UCSB soccer player from Africa who was seemingly wrongly accused and is doing jail time now). Most people do not risk sexism in the workplace (or elsewhere) for fear of a lawsuit.

Males are generally bigger and stronger, and occasionally dangerous, but we can't do much about that beyond what is already being done, so I do not know what else can be said about that.

> And women can approach men too.

It is much less common for women to approach men than for men to approach women. Thus it is true (in current society, making allowances for hyperbole) that "Men have to approach women, or they don't get laid".

> This whole paragraph reeks of you not thinking women's consent/feelings on who touches them matter.

He was speaking descriptively, not normatively. "This is why it happened" does not imply "it is okay that it happened"; I admit that the tone might give that impression, but I'm fairly confident it was unintentional.

Sorry, all straight men who are sexually healthy -- you know what I mean.

If you are sexually healthy, I hate to break it to you, but the reason your mind loves, respects, and is otherwise polite to women is because nature has made sure that you will do whatever you can to procreate with the mates you see fit. Nature has designed your mind such that it experiences a higher order of sexual attraction, which is called love. This attraction is based on judgment of a mate in terms of their physical and mental capacity. If you do not believe me, why have you never fallen in love with an obese or dim-witted person?

If you want to argue that nature has not designed you to seek reproduction...maybe you are the type of person that believes in soul-mates, one true love, and all that stuff, in which case I'm probably not the best person to argue with as our views are inherently different.

Nested too deep, but to reply to the comments below:

@hythloday - There are natural inclinations which we have deemed socially acceptable, and ones we have not. If you desire to murder someone, you are probably a sociopath, and obviously no one is going condone you murdering people. On the other hand, if you experience sexual attraction, you are probably normal (ask any scientist if that is hard to believe). If deep down, you desire to rape somebody, you are abnormal. If deep down, you feel sexual attraction towards someone, there is nothing wrong with that.

@swa14 - Have you ever tried to argue with a believer of god (from an atheist perspective)? It is pretty fruitless, which is why I would advise to avoid it, just as I would advise arguing against me if you believe in mysticism like soul-mates. Anything which cannot be scientifically proven or disproven (like the existence of a god) generally leads to fruitless arguments.

I tend to believe that women initiate encounters with men with unconscious non-verbal signals. A man who is able to read these signals will have a good success rate in meeting new women. A man who cannot will be pegged as a "creeper".

I think it's not only true in real life, but on dating sites as well. Women receive so many messages from men that you are probably just going to get buried in all the noise if you send one. The best approach would be to make a good profile, and wait for them to message you. I'm not saying males initiating contact on these sites won't have any success, but I'd say it's statistically unlikely, comparatively.

It is also a strange coincidence that even on a biological level millions of sperm must compete to fertilize one egg. In lieu of absolute scientific proof (which may or may not exist) I'm fairly confident women are the ones who do the choosing, not us.

For the best results in approaching women, please consider the following flowcharts:

Pre-Approach Flowchart:

     --no--> STOP
           |
          yes 
           |
     --yes--> STOP
           |
           no
           |
     --yes--> STOP
           |
           no
           |
        APPROACH          
     

Approach Flowchart:

     -------------YES---> GO TO JAIL
                    |
     --YES--> FAIL
                    |
        --YES--> FAIL
                    |
     --NO--> FAIL
                    |
                   yes
                    |
     --NO--> Nice try anyway
                    |
                   yes
                    |
   +--                               |
   |                |                               |
   |               YES                              |
   |                |                               |
  NO---         |
                    |    +--------------------------+
                   YES   |
                    |    |
                    |    |
              --NO---[Your odds worsened]
                      |                      |
                     YES                     |
                      |                      |
              --NO--+
                      |                         |
    WIN  ------------YES                        |
                                                |
                      +--------------------------
                      |
               --NO-- Maybe you 
                      |                  will see her again.
                     YES
                      |
                Call soon or she will forget who
                you are. Don't leave a message the
                first time. Don't call more than 
                two times in the first week. If
                very desperate and no luck after two
                you may try calling once more in a week,
                but seriously, move on...

A retired creep who has a permanent girlfriend

;)