Live data from Hacker News

China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

sand-boarding.com

31–40 of 161 posts

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#31

Meanwhile the US uses it surpluses of wealth to do… what? Optimize ad sales to 16 year olds and fund genocide in Gaza?

Don't forget bailing out banks that fueled bubbles. With the money that went into that we could had by now a the Sahara rainforest.

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#32
post #6

It took 46 years to create the 1,900 mile, ~3060 km green belt around the 130,350 square miles (337,600 km2) desert. The linked article doesn't say anything about negatives, but the positives seem to be very beneficial for the area. I really wish other major powers would commit to similar projects. In my opinion, communities need larger goals to strive towards, to provide a sense of continued belonging and reinvestme…

I've sometimes wondered whether arid parts of the American Southwest could, through the right kind of permaculture interventions, support more biological carbon sequestration, more plant life, drive development of richer soil etc. But I suspect if you said "we're gonna use this big section of BLM land to incrementally try to keep water in the landscape, and introduce a sequence of plant species that can increase carb…

That's kind of the point of democratic institutions, though: centralizing a lot of these directive powers leads to explosive efficiencies at the cost of liberty to, for example, surface objections as you illustrate. Or, more dramatically, throwing people who object into dark cells.

That's how autocratic regimes can take on megaprojects without a lot of the red tape that leads to, for example, a paralytically slow rollout of Seattle light rail.

You choose your poison.

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#33
post #11
post #10

China may well have replaced the USSR as the latest bogeyman to keep attention away from whatever war crimes the US is currently supporting or committing, but all I can think about is the ~$10T spent on and millions of lives lost to the "War on Terror" and what could've been done with the money instead. I mean just look at the high speed rail transformation in 16 years [1]. China is not without its issues but neither…

China has built 30,000 miles of high speed rails it doesn't need [1], going into $1 trillion of debt and other liabilities. Just keeping up with its debt requires $25 billion annually. Incidentally, Chinese local governments are now $11 trillion in debt [2], with all provinces except Shanghai in 2023 being positive on revenues. And now there are around 4000 ghost railway stations [3] [1]: https://www.wsj.com/world/ch…

>4000 ghost railway stations

lol wut. There are ~5000 rail way stations TOTAL, ~1000 HSR, of which ~30 are considered ghost, i.e. 3% wasted stations on size of PRC network is stupid efficient. The system is generating positive profit with increasing utilization, hence expansion.

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#34
post #11
post #10

China may well have replaced the USSR as the latest bogeyman to keep attention away from whatever war crimes the US is currently supporting or committing, but all I can think about is the ~$10T spent on and millions of lives lost to the "War on Terror" and what could've been done with the money instead. I mean just look at the high speed rail transformation in 16 years [1]. China is not without its issues but neither…

China has built 30,000 miles of high speed rails it doesn't need [1], going into $1 trillion of debt and other liabilities. Just keeping up with its debt requires $25 billion annually. Incidentally, Chinese local governments are now $11 trillion in debt [2], with all provinces except Shanghai in 2023 being positive on revenues. And now there are around 4000 ghost railway stations [3] [1]: https://www.wsj.com/world/ch…

> China has built 30,000 miles of high speed rails it doesn't need

That's a ridiculous statement. High-speed rail is extremely heavily used in China (3 billion trips in 2023).

This is like dismissing the US interstate highway system as a useless vanity project. HSR is a heavily used, central part of China's transportation infrastructure that has made getting between major Chinese cities way easier, faster and more comfortable than it used to be.

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#35
post #30

Meanwhile the US uses it surpluses of wealth to do… what? Optimize ad sales to 16 year olds and fund genocide in Gaza?

Support Ukraine against invasion from Russia. Support Taiwan against invasion from China. Investing in reusable rockets, pushing humanity out into space. Supporting new technologies like augmented reality, AI, satellite internet, self driving.

Keep in mind China puts their money in these things too! Except they're on the opposite side and maybe spend a bit less on the military

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#36

Meanwhile the US uses it surpluses of wealth to do… what? Optimize ad sales to 16 year olds and fund genocide in Gaza?

I have always wondered why the US doesn't use the trillion dollar deficit to fund healthcare for all.

Republicans always find money for more tax cuts but never social security...

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#37
post #11
post #10

China may well have replaced the USSR as the latest bogeyman to keep attention away from whatever war crimes the US is currently supporting or committing, but all I can think about is the ~$10T spent on and millions of lives lost to the "War on Terror" and what could've been done with the money instead. I mean just look at the high speed rail transformation in 16 years [1]. China is not without its issues but neither…

China has built 30,000 miles of high speed rails it doesn't need [1], going into $1 trillion of debt and other liabilities. Just keeping up with its debt requires $25 billion annually. Incidentally, Chinese local governments are now $11 trillion in debt [2], with all provinces except Shanghai in 2023 being positive on revenues. And now there are around 4000 ghost railway stations [3] [1]: https://www.wsj.com/world/ch…

wow, red scare capitalist propaganda from wsj.

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#38
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've sometimes wondered whether arid parts of the American Southwest could, through the right kind of permaculture interventions, support more biological carbon sequestration, more plant life, drive development of richer soil etc. But I suspect if you said "we're gonna use this big section of BLM land to incrementally try to keep water in the landscape, and introduce a sequence of plant species that can increase carb…

That's kind of the point of democratic institutions, though: centralizing a lot of these directive powers leads to explosive efficiencies at the cost of liberty to, for example, surface objections as you illustrate. Or, more dramatically, throwing people who object into dark cells. That's how autocratic regimes can take on megaprojects without a lot of the red tape that leads to, for example, a paralytically slow rol…

Wouldn't you say the US is somewhat of an outlier w.r.t. government ability to undertake significant infrastructural projects?

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 25B in interest expenses extreme here? Edit: oh just for the rail costs

jmyeet mentioned building rails, and baserev makes a counterargument, that it isn't necessarily a good "investment".

Counterargument based on retarded data. There's only ~1000 HSR stations with ~30 considered ghost, ~3%. It's not a good investment, it's a great investment. It's already profitable. Utilization is increasing YoY. All for ~1T over 20 years. Put it this way, US excessive health spending (~5% over OECD average works out to 2T/5T per year), PRC got entire HSR network for 6 months of excessive US health care spending that still delivers less life expectancy than PRC. This isn't even mentioning the 100s of billions PRC is saving not buying US/EU aviation or importing fuel. It's literally converting steel and concrete into forever import savings, and it's doing on the cheap while labour prices were (are) low - that blue collar cohort is only going to decrease with time. Better to build as much as possible now.

This is not to mention HSR is basically ONLY option for mass fast intercity travel within PRC... 1.3B people squeezed in populated area 1/3 size of CONUS = too much air cooridor congestion. There's literally no other option than HSR. Like air travel isn't going to make Chinese New Year happen.

Re: China completes green belt around Taklamakan Desert

#40
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've sometimes wondered whether arid parts of the American Southwest could, through the right kind of permaculture interventions, support more biological carbon sequestration, more plant life, drive development of richer soil etc. But I suspect if you said "we're gonna use this big section of BLM land to incrementally try to keep water in the landscape, and introduce a sequence of plant species that can increase carb…

That's kind of the point of democratic institutions, though: centralizing a lot of these directive powers leads to explosive efficiencies at the cost of liberty to, for example, surface objections as you illustrate. Or, more dramatically, throwing people who object into dark cells. That's how autocratic regimes can take on megaprojects without a lot of the red tape that leads to, for example, a paralytically slow rol…

You cannot choose much poison either in one side.
Post reply on HN