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Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

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Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#191

Post by EasyMark »

cableshaft wrote: post #31
MBCook wrote: post #3

I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not. 32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.

One year a company did mandatory 'half-day Fridays' during the summer where the company closed after a half day on Friday. But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday. That extra hour those four days felt torturous, so it meant four days of feeling awful just so I could leave a few hours early on a day in which most people (and myself) already weren't working too hard anyway. I hated it. This…

I always saw half time Fridays as just as bad as Fridays as a full work day. Now you’re just kinda making fun of workers with that. If I’m already doing the commute and the shower and the crap I have to do in the morning what’s the point?Might as well get some real work in and do a full day

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#192

Post by makeitdouble »

For context, while Japan has a reputation of a shitty place for work culture, a lot has changed.

Not everything, but many more companies will allow for flexible hours for instance, full remote has stayed in many places, and more traditional place usually allow one or two days or remoting every week.

There is a communal sense that growth is basically gone and better conditions are negotiable. Newer companies have been offering better conditions and older companies are having to compete and follow up to some point.

This initiative is following that trend. Schools are facing the same "adapt or get shunned" situation where just nobody wants to be a teacher and family/friends will actively try to stop someone from going there.

So things are changing.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#193

Post by impute »

cableshaft wrote: post #31
MBCook wrote: post #3

I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not. 32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.

One year a company did mandatory 'half-day Fridays' during the summer where the company closed after a half day on Friday. But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday. That extra hour those four days felt torturous, so it meant four days of feeling awful just so I could leave a few hours early on a day in which most people (and myself) already weren't working too hard anyway. I hated it. This…

I had a similar experience. I worked for a place where if you worked 48 minutes more per day, you'd get every 2nd Friday off. This was a unionized place that was pretty strict about not working extra hours due to overtime rules. After being hired, I didn't partake in this but had pretty short workdays. I would start at 8:30 and then leave at 4. It was great. However, pretty much everyone in the company did the system to get the 2nd Friday off. So I tried switching to that and I felt the same. It just felt so much longer.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#194

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #177
halgir wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, from a moral standpoint you owe your children everything. You forced them into existence without their consent. Though I agree that doesn't have to mean conforming to societal expectations of ivy league schools and so forth. Food, love and a roof over your head goes a long way.

Disagree philosophically, there was no "them" to consent prior to them existing, so no one was forced. I think this is gesturing at Benatar's antinatalist argument but as you'll recall it rests on a metaphysical asymmetry here I have just never found convincing. Appreciate you keeping the pushback civil, however.

> Disagree philosophically, there was no "them" to consent prior to them existing, so no one was forced.

The point is that the obligation flows one way because one party was inserted into it without their consent.

Does their lack of preexistence impact that equation in a meaningful way?

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#195

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

orangecat wrote: post #184
a1exyz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and think that this is a huge growing cultural expectation - "you have to live for your children". I don't think it used to be the case. Well OK sure I get that that would be good for kids but you're also gonna limit the number of parents if that's the new normal.

Well OK sure I get that that would be good for kids And past a certain point it's not.

>> Well OK sure I get that that would be good for kids

> And past a certain point it's not.

Where do you estimate that point is? What harm do you believe lies past it?

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#196

Post by wkat4242 »

cableshaft wrote: post #31
MBCook wrote: post #3

I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not. 32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.

One year a company did mandatory 'half-day Fridays' during the summer where the company closed after a half day on Friday. But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday. That extra hour those four days felt torturous, so it meant four days of feeling awful just so I could leave a few hours early on a day in which most people (and myself) already weren't working too hard anyway. I hated it. This…

> One year a company did mandatory 'half-day Fridays' during the summer where the company closed after a half day on Friday.

> But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday.

This is SOP at my work in Spain. It's fine for me, they're very flexible anyway. And I work from home so much that it doesn't really exhaust me.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#197

Post by ghaff »

blendo wrote: post #159
7thaccount wrote: post #2

That sounds....huge. I know many working couples where one would probably take that in a heartbeat. You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge, not to mention clocking out early each day to be able to pick up your kid and not have to get back to work or whatever.

Prior to retirement, I cut back to 32 hrs/week at 80% pay (well, closer to 85% because I kept my full health). I backfilled the pay cut by beginning a small 401k withdrawl. All of a sudden, every Thursday evening felt like the start of vacation!

It sort of happened with me by default. Probably didn't take as much advantage as I should. And "retirement" is much less retirement than it could be.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#198

Post by Vegenoid »

a1exyz wrote: post #167
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll gladly volunteer to be the first to say "Fuck those societal expectations, that's insane." You don't owe your children much more than food, love and a roof over their head. Sure, you might want to give them the world, but don't listen to anyone telling you that's the expectation - that's a fast track to resentment.

I agree and think that this is a huge growing cultural expectation - "you have to live for your children". I don't think it used to be the case. Well OK sure I get that that would be good for kids but you're also gonna limit the number of parents if that's the new normal.

I actually think it is good for kids to have exposure to:

- entertaining themselves

- working/providing for themselves

- having to do things that they don’t want to do

- being told no, and dealing with unfulfilled desire

All with balance, I am not proposing that kids are just left to fend for themselves. Caring for your kids materially and emotionally is important, but so is living your own life and making them live theirs.

I may be having kids in the not too distant future, and when I think about how I would parent, I consider 2 families I know who I have seen raise children.

In one, the kids are often denied requests they make for objects they want to own and activities they want to do. The parents drag their kids along to things that they (the parents) want to do, rather than not doing the thing because the kids don’t want to. At family gatherings, their parents expect that they will take care of and entertain themselves, while the parents enjoy time with the other adults.

In the other family, the kids are showered with toys and attention, and their mom goes to great effort to open any door for them that they express interest in. At family gatherings, the parents are always checking on their kids, and indulge every request the kids make of them.

Which family has happier, more capable, and well-adjusted children? Which family has happier parents? The answer to both is the first family.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#199

Post by TeMPOraL »

05 wrote: post #178
TeMPOraL wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we go further, and replace "Governments" with "human civilization" and "tax-free status" with "continued existence"?

Unbounded population growth is sufficient but not necessary for continued existence of a civilization..

The problem goes the other way - developed nations, the ones where you have people living comfortably enough to talk stuff like RiverCrochet's nephew, are all living below replacement rate. As things currently are, our countries are already extinct, they just don't know it yet.

The irony. For the past 50+ years, we were so obsessed with the threat of overpopulation that we didn't think of the opposite; didn't even realize that people who care about such things will all have bred themselves out of existence way before Earth gets too crowded.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#200

Post by ghaff »

cavisne wrote: post #102
7thaccount wrote: post #2

That sounds....huge. I know many working couples where one would probably take that in a heartbeat. You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge, not to mention clocking out early each day to be able to pick up your kid and not have to get back to work or whatever.

The issue is in corporate jobs (including tech) Friday is a very relaxed day. If you are working a shorter week than everyone else, you end up doing the same amount of work in less time for less money.

My experience, especially post-COVID, is that meetings on Friday are discouraged and nobody blinks at noon departures. Etc. Not quite a four-day work week but came pretty close for a lot of folks.
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