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Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

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Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#161

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

orangecat wrote: post #109
reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I'll gladly volunteer to be the first to say "Fuck those societal expectations, that's insane."

You don't owe your children much more than food, love and a roof over their head. Sure, you might want to give them the world, but don't listen to anyone telling you that's the expectation - that's a fast track to resentment.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#162

Post by ipaddr »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #104
ipaddr wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We take so much for granted. Living in a world without electricity, medicine, food scarcity, lack of safety net. Family didn't offer as much support as it appears. Average kids are working farms rich children are sent away to be raised. The social bonds of the modern world still exist in the same places as the past. It starts with the church.. so if you crave the social connections you can still go to church to find…

You almost had a coherent point until the last sentence. I'll take my social bonds without the side-order of dogma, thanks.

What bonds people in the past is religious dogma. We removed it and we wonder why our social bonds are so weak.

I'm not suggesting we go back but we have nothing to replace it. The one thing a church did was welcome in everyone. We don't have places like that anymore.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#163

Post by wkat4242 »

orangecat wrote: post #109
reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

Don't feel bad. It's good for the planet and society to reduce the population somewhat. It can't keep growing forever. All the major problems we have are a result of it. Climate change, housing shortage, resource conflicts etc.

The demographic problems during a decline are only temporary.

If the world had only 1 billion people it would be a lot easier. The whole idea that humanity would go extinct is ridiculous. And humanity is still growing anyway due to the many countries that don't have falling birth rates.

There's always people wanting to have kids. This is just society adjusting itself to the current overpopulation.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#164

Post by mrweasel »

MBCook wrote: post #3

I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not. 32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.

If they are just compress the 40 hours down to 4 days, then this won't work. I don't know how it works in Japan, but how the hell are you suppose to drop off and pick up kids with a 10 hour day, are schools and daycare even available 11-12 hours per day? They'd be increasing the stress four days a week to an ungodly level where families won't be able to function.

Most of these four-day workweeks are almost always bullshit, because they insist on keeping the same hours. I hope that's not the case here. Some companies have been experimenting with just slashing a day a week completely and it always increase productivity, retention and happiness.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#165

Post by FagNigKiller »

liontwist wrote: post #124
wubrr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the subordinates have to lie about taking time off, and intentionally accept lower pay for the benefit of their superiors - then no, it's definitely not reciprocated. I'd argue the subordinates are straight up being abused in this case.

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#166

Post by feyman_r »

chachacharge wrote: post #50
7thaccount wrote: post #2

That sounds....huge. I know many working couples where one would probably take that in a heartbeat. You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge, not to mention clocking out early each day to be able to pick up your kid and not have to get back to work or whatever.

I kind of doubt this will be adopted practically in Japan. The old people get time off and leave work early in Japan by privilege and the young break themselves and any rule they need to permit it. The young would even lie about taking time off to make the boss look good, even taking less pay to sell the lie. Who can have kids when you already have to change everyone's diaper.

Interestingly, a big company actually did an experiment in Japan itself: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-say...

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#167

Post by a1exyz »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #161
orangecat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I'll gladly volunteer to be the first to say "Fuck those societal expectations, that's insane." You don't owe your children much more than food, love and a roof over their head. Sure, you might want to give them the world, but don't listen to anyone telling you that's the expectation - that's a fast track to resentment.

I agree and think that this is a huge growing cultural expectation - "you have to live for your children". I don't think it used to be the case.

Well OK sure I get that that would be good for kids but you're also gonna limit the number of parents if that's the new normal.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#168

Post by halgir »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #161
orangecat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I'll gladly volunteer to be the first to say "Fuck those societal expectations, that's insane." You don't owe your children much more than food, love and a roof over their head. Sure, you might want to give them the world, but don't listen to anyone telling you that's the expectation - that's a fast track to resentment.

On the contrary, from a moral standpoint you owe your children everything. You forced them into existence without their consent.

Though I agree that doesn't have to mean conforming to societal expectations of ivy league schools and so forth. Food, love and a roof over your head goes a long way.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#169

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

dividefuel wrote: post #138
orangecat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I agree with this as the main factor (over cost) for the falling birth rate. The opportunity cost of having children has never been higher: you give up leisure, hobbies, rest, social life, and income. Whether or not children is worth this cost is a personal thing, but it seems kinda obvious that as the cost increases, fewer will pay it.

> The opportunity cost of having children has never been higher: you give up leisure, hobbies, rest, social life, and income.

Those things are given up because parenting-time is up 20-fold from a few generations ago.

From the 1960s back, kids needed parents a few hours a week.

But we reduced kids' roaming area from many sq mi to just their own property. At the same time, we instituted 24/7 adulting. Most of those hours are filled by parents.

Kids have permanently lost daily hours of peer-driven growth - the ones where complex social interactions occurred naturally. Parents are now left with trying to construct artificial environments (leagues, programs) where maybe some of that can occur.

Those efforts eat time and resources. And they're a poor substitute for the vital environments that kids once had for free.

I spent 20x the time parenting that my mom did. For all of that, my kids had little-to-none of my growth opportunities.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#170

Post by EasyMark »

7thaccount wrote: post #2

That sounds....huge. I know many working couples where one would probably take that in a heartbeat. You lose some money, but gain more family time and sanity. Having Friday to finish chores and being able to enjoy the weekend unstressed is huge, not to mention clocking out early each day to be able to pick up your kid and not have to get back to work or whatever.

I worked out a 9hr/4 days week with my current company, I get more work done in those 36 hours than I did in the 40 hours before because I’m more relaxed after a long weekend and considerably happier
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