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Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

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Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#131

Post by nkrebs13 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #118
m463 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. Telsa and rivian have a vested interest in keeping the chargers working. Their sales depend on the chargers working. Even a little bad press is a multiplier against sales. They also have significant engineering effort throughout the charging ecosystem, from the batteries, on-board infrastructure, standards, mapping, strategic c…

I think the answer is that there needs to be, like gas stations, substantial retail/dining side-quest stuff set up to get revenue. If you don't have working chargers, people won't buy your hamburgers and pop. Or whatever. Likely though this market is going to need some regulation/standardization. In the end though, the demand is sporadic. Supercharger use is only for a minority of use cases (road trips) for a small s…

Agree with your thoughts. To add - I've taken my Model Y on many roadtrips and have been to many superchargers. A solid number _are_ at restaurants/shops/etc. Some aren't -- but there are so many chargers that usually you can alter the planned route to include a longer charge wherever you want.

Not only will batteries get bigger, but chargers will get faster. Most of my stops now are 10-15min so often there's not really a need for any side-questing. Tesla recently added a supercharger-specific leaderboard for their in-car Mario Kart clone, which is super cool. I think we'll see some growth there for that kind of thing, but the market is obviously much lower than gas stations/etc

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#132

Post by peutetre »

m463 wrote: post #104
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #32

Their strategy was to build them where there weren't other dcfc chargers, opening up new areas especially around outdoors places. Their chargers are much better maintained in general than the infamous Electrify America (they really struggle to fix EA chargers when they have problems, and they have problems) - there's a long story behind this. Rivian started before the plan to use superchargers was even envisioned, so…

I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. Telsa and rivian have a vested interest in keeping the chargers working. Their sales depend on the chargers working. Even a little bad press is a multiplier against sales. They also have significant engineering effort throughout the charging ecosystem, from the batteries, on-board infrastructure, standards, mapping, strategic c…

The main problem has been lack of standardization. No one wants to invest in infrastructure when there's no common standard to build to.

North America is a long way behind Europe in EV charging infrastructure:

https://evboosters.com/ev-charging-news/europe-surpasses-900...

And both are behind China:

https://evboosters.com/ev-charging-news/the-state-of-public-...

Europe and China have charging standards that everyone can build to. There is more investment, more charge point operators, more charger manufacturers, and more chargers simply because companies can deploy chargers that will work with all cars.

Eventually North America will achieve standardization by building to CCS chargers with the J3400 plug but that will be a slow and gradual process. There will be many adapters and retrofits in the meantime.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#133

Post by Schiendelman »

asynchronous wrote: post #23
Suppafly wrote: post #21

I had no idea that Rivian had a charging network and they build them like an hour from where I live so I see them all over the place. I just assumed they used the Tesla ones or the generic ones you see all over.

They do (mis)use the Tesla ones. I don’t expect this announcement means literally anything to any EV brand.

They are using them correctly. That is how Tesla tells Rivian owners to use them. Tesla is updating their chargers with a longer cable to make this less of a problem over time.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#134

Post by Schiendelman »

ulrischa wrote: post #70

Cool feature: The Rivian R1T and R1S are equipped with a "Tank Turn" feature, allowing the vehicle to rotate 360 degrees in place by spinning the left and right wheels in opposite directions.

Could you edit your comment? This is incorrect. It was a demo, but they chose not to do it because it does so much damage to ground surface, and their vehicles are intended to be used in places like national parks where that matters a lot.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#135

Post by Schiendelman »

wlesieutre wrote: post #11
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only 3 plug formats that matter. J1772 for AC charging, the Tesla plug (called NACS), and CCS, the other main standard. It may look messy but it's trivial in practice, once you can use superchargers. Once you have access to superchargers you can just drive. I've driven across the country 3 times in a Tesla, now I have a different EV with a CCS plug and access to superchargers with an adapter, I'm free to go w…

It's not only the plug shape though, it's also the language the plug speaks. Newer Tesla chargers (I think supercharger v3 and up) will be able to talk CCS over the NACS connector for wide compatibility, but the older ones will look the same and only charge a Tesla because they don't communicate with CCS.

Everyone's car already knows what chargers they can use. The card doesn't route you to incompatible chargers. This is a solved problem. It sounds like you just don't have an EV.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#136

Post by peutetre »

i80and wrote: post #6
nimbius wrote: post #3

I applaud the effort to expand charging across the nation as this will inevitably increase the comfort level of the average joe on the fence with range anxiety. The elephant in the room that nobody is talking about is the connector. There are SEVEN different competing charging connector types in North America. if i dont have an adapter, im either screwed into spending 3 hours at a charging station or im calling a tow…

In practice there are only three: NACS (currently only at Tesla stations); CCS (everywhere that isn't Tesla), and J1772 (destination charging). NACS is the industry consensus on the one true North American plug to rule them all going forward. CHAdeMO is completely dead -- you'll sometimes see them, but they're being kept on life support if not outright decommissioned.

> NACS (currently only at Tesla stations)

The J3400 plug is already deployed by other charge point operators. ChargePoint had J3400 plugs on their chargers 6 months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-0xRTduPI

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#137

Post by peutetre »

izacus wrote: post #18

How did we get from a situation where you could just pay with cash/card for fuel to having monopolized single-brand car fueling stations?

Lack of ambition. Regulation solves the problem. Europe has mandated contactless payment for all chargers.

Here's a Tesla V4 charger charging a Kia with contactless payment, no Tesla account and no Tesla app:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yflZN0dLT8s

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#138

Post by judge2020 »

Animats wrote: post #77
bdcravens wrote: post #5

TIL Rivian has a charging network

Rivian's R&D center is in Palo Alto, but their charger map doesn't show a public charger anywhere near there. They have zero chargers of their own in Silicon Valley. There's a standards group at SAE working on making US charger payment compatibility work.[1] BP Pulse, General Motors, Ford, ChargePoint, Electrify America, Tesla, Toyota, and Rivian are on board. It's good to see more higher-powered chargers. When and i…

> Rivian's R&D center is in Palo Alto, but their charger map doesn't show a public charger anywhere near there. They have zero chargers of their own in Silicon Valley.

Similarly, Tesla chargers in the New York area were the first to receive Magic Docks because their Energy manufacturing facility is there including the engineering aspects of it.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#139

Post by wlesieutre »

Schiendelman wrote: post #135
wlesieutre wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only the plug shape though, it's also the language the plug speaks. Newer Tesla chargers (I think supercharger v3 and up) will be able to talk CCS over the NACS connector for wide compatibility, but the older ones will look the same and only charge a Tesla because they don't communicate with CCS.

Everyone's car already knows what chargers they can use. The card doesn't route you to incompatible chargers. This is a solved problem. It sounds like you just don't have an EV.

I'm aware of that, thanks.

It's more a note for any apartment dwellers thinking "I see Tesla chargers all over town, I could buy a 2025 Equinox (or whatever) with NACS and swing through the one on next to my office when I need to. If it's a v3 or v4 that's true, if it's an older station it's still only for Teslas.

So if you buy a new EV thinking "I know where the nearest Tesla chargers are" you could be in for some disappointment. Check the map first: https://www.tesla.com/findus?filters=nacs_superchargers

It's a worse problem in some areas than others. For example, all 9 supercharger locations in South Dakota are Tesla Exclusive.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#140

Post by Aloha »

qwerpy wrote: post #45
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #32

Their strategy was to build them where there weren't other dcfc chargers, opening up new areas especially around outdoors places. Their chargers are much better maintained in general than the infamous Electrify America (they really struggle to fix EA chargers when they have problems, and they have problems) - there's a long story behind this. Rivian started before the plan to use superchargers was even envisioned, so…

As a cybertruck owner who likes to drive deep into national parks, I'm optimistic about this. Tesla covers the big highways really well with their superchargers, but where they fall short are those adventure/outdoors destinations. E.g. the north cascades loop in WA state. You can find the occasional level 2 charger but they are painfully slow and aren't maintained well. Prior to the CT, Tesla didn't have "adventure-c…

How do you like the Cybertruck.. I find the appearance polarizing, much like G1 priuses.
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