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Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

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Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#51

Post by alttab »

nbm wrote: post #40
alttab wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackberry doesn't steal your email address, follow your browsing history on other devices outside your phone, sell your personal data to advertisers, continually change your privacy settings in hopes you won't notice, etc.

What makes you say that Facebook will "sell your personal data to advertisers"? Do you mean that advertisers pay to get information like your name, email address, street location, and other identifiable information about you, like in a huge spreadsheet? Or do you mean that advertisers can pay money to have their adverts displayed to the sorts of people who most likely will be interested in them but receive no persona…

I do understand. Online advertising in a free product is an essential part of the business model where I work. I do understand perfectly the nuance of which you speak because I deal with personally identifiable information everyday.

Where I draw the line is when Facebook goes out of their way to learn about their users as a way to enrich their advertising platform through sneaky means. For instance, every 'Like' button on any web page can track where you go on the internet. While they don't hand this information directly over to their advertisers, its essentially spying without consent and then profiting from it. I consider my browsing history personal data because its mine, not Facebook's.

Would it make you more comfortable to say "they spy on me and then use that information to target me in ways I did not want Facebook's clients to leverage?" This holds especially true since that tracked behavior happens outside of their walled garden.

I say "sell your personal data to advertisers" because colloquially more people understand that and its a recognizable sound bite. But the nuance is there, I deal with it everyday in my job so I understand it, and I think Facebook crosses the line.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#52

Post by Karunamon »

Buzaga wrote: post #50
Karunamon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stop trying to change my behavior by holding me responsible In general, being responsible is a good thing...

having the choice is the fundamental thing for fucks sake, what world do you live in? sheep

To be responsible or not? Forgive me for not thinking you're taking the moral high road, here, jerk.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#53

Post by alttab »

Karunamon wrote: post #52
Buzaga wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

having the choice is the fundamental thing for fucks sake, what world do you live in? sheep

To be responsible or not? Forgive me for not thinking you're taking the moral high road, here, jerk.

I value freedom of choice over "doing the right thing" as freedom is not subjective while moral high roads are.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#54

Post by Karunamon »

alttab wrote: post #53
Karunamon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be responsible or not? Forgive me for not thinking you're taking the moral high road, here, jerk.

I value freedom of choice over "doing the right thing" as freedom is not subjective while moral high roads are.

You have a choice not to use facebook, I suppose. I can't see a single complaint against this system that doesn't end in bullshitting someone else (i.e. deception). Someone sends you a message, you read it, don't act on it. Now the other person can see you didn't act and ask WTF.

It'll cause some friction, sure. People will get over it.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#55

Post by alttab »

Karunamon wrote: post #54
alttab wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value freedom of choice over "doing the right thing" as freedom is not subjective while moral high roads are.

You have a choice not to use facebook, I suppose. I can't see a single complaint against this system that doesn't end in bullshitting someone else (i.e. deception). Someone sends you a message, you read it, don't act on it. Now the other person can see you didn't act and ask WTF. It'll cause some friction, sure. People will get over it.

I certainly do have a choice not to use it... but then again, not really (I even said people are forced to stay in it due to network effects).

Theoretically speaking, maybe I love Google+ but none of the people I want to keep in touch with use it, and thus the lock-in. I get what you're saying. And I really only use Facebook for two things - keeping in touch with family and friends that do not live near me, and posting Anti-Facebook articles to my News Feed.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#56

Post by nbm »

alttab wrote: post #51
nbm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say that Facebook will "sell your personal data to advertisers"? Do you mean that advertisers pay to get information like your name, email address, street location, and other identifiable information about you, like in a huge spreadsheet? Or do you mean that advertisers can pay money to have their adverts displayed to the sorts of people who most likely will be interested in them but receive no persona…

I do understand. Online advertising in a free product is an essential part of the business model where I work. I do understand perfectly the nuance of which you speak because I deal with personally identifiable information everyday. Where I draw the line is when Facebook goes out of their way to learn about their users as a way to enrich their advertising platform through sneaky means. For instance, every 'Like' butt…

It seems to me that "sell your personal data to advertisers" sows more confusion through its recognition than clarity. People who hear "sell your personal data to advertisers" without your background tend to believe it literally - money is given to Facebook in exchange for personal information (ie, someone's name and particular data about them).

In terms of the "Like" button and other social plugins, unfortunately there's not all that much to be done about the way the technologies in the web works. Facebook came up with this "widget" that provided way more value to people than the equivalent buttons from Digg, Delicious, and several others, many of which encourage integration that uses resources stored on a central server which could allow tracking even without clicking on them. Many of these widgets need to talk to a server anyway - to provide credibility and popularity by showing how many people have liked the content. However, the "Like" button needs to talk to a server to provide its additional value - to show you a list of your friends who have also liked this content.

I encourage you to read the Facebook Data Use Policy, especially the section about "Social plugins" under "Other websites applications", and the link through to the Help Center that gives even more information about how that data is and is not used.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#57

Post by superuser2 »

nitrogen wrote: post #48
superuser2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're fixing a serious error in the way they model conversation. Please explain how this is "dictating social behavior." People engaged in an in-person conversation constantly and involuntarily give each other verbal and nonverbal cues indicating the receipt (or loss/corruption) of each message. One of the primary gripes against the text-based communication Facebook et al "forced" us to use is the loss of that subc…

Text-based conversations are not in-person conversations! Text-based communication has existed for centuries prior to Facebook, and existing social protocols are perfectly capable of handling "seen" notifications. "Sorry, I didn't get your message" and other half-truths are an essential part of human interaction. If you want to know if your friends received a text message, just ask them. Instantaneous "X saw your mes…

>Text-based conversations are not in-person conversations!

My guess is Facebook is wants its messaging system to be farther towards in-person conversation on the scale of information-richness.

>"seen" is an impossible flag to get right

I'll agree with you there, but I think most cases would be handled quite well by setting "seen" iff the user interacts with the Facebook window after the message is displayed. This would handle situations where the browser is in focus but the computer is unoccupied, switching users, shutting down, etc.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#58

Post by Buzaga »

Karunamon wrote: post #54
alttab wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value freedom of choice over "doing the right thing" as freedom is not subjective while moral high roads are.

You have a choice not to use facebook, I suppose. I can't see a single complaint against this system that doesn't end in bullshitting someone else (i.e. deception). Someone sends you a message, you read it, don't act on it. Now the other person can see you didn't act and ask WTF. It'll cause some friction, sure. People will get over it.

you're kinda authoritarian aren't ya? basically, if I got it right, you think that if anyone uses their freedom as an individual to act in any way you and the collective consciousness you follow disapproves then it's ok to limit that person rights

and you also think it's ok to just embed your vision of the world as a framework(like, facebook forcing this behaviour down everyones throat) because if everyone would just think like you do, everything would be better?

Well I don't agree and I'll never do and I'll also stand up against, otherwise it may well happen!

this is a nice article that touches this topic: http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127...

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#59

Post by Karunamon »

Buzaga wrote: post #58
Karunamon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a choice not to use facebook, I suppose. I can't see a single complaint against this system that doesn't end in bullshitting someone else (i.e. deception). Someone sends you a message, you read it, don't act on it. Now the other person can see you didn't act and ask WTF. It'll cause some friction, sure. People will get over it.

you're kinda authoritarian aren't ya? basically, if I got it right, you think that if anyone uses their freedom as an individual to act in any way you and the collective consciousness you follow disapproves then it's ok to limit that person rights and you also think it's ok to just embed your vision of the world as a framework(like, facebook forcing this behaviour down everyones throat) because if everyone would just…

No, you don't have it right. First of all, I don't see how "rights" ever enter into it. How is it a right, in any sense of the word, to have hidden when you've read someone else's message? That's what this is about.

>and you also think it's ok to just embed your vision of the world as a framework

Just.. no. I never said that, or hinted at it. Stop reading motivations into my beliefs that do not exist.

Re: Facebook Groups Start Showing Exactly Who Saw Each Post

#60

Post by Buzaga »

Karunamon wrote: post #59
Buzaga wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're kinda authoritarian aren't ya? basically, if I got it right, you think that if anyone uses their freedom as an individual to act in any way you and the collective consciousness you follow disapproves then it's ok to limit that person rights and you also think it's ok to just embed your vision of the world as a framework(like, facebook forcing this behaviour down everyones throat) because if everyone would just…

No, you don't have it right. First of all, I don't see how "rights" ever enter into it. How is it a right, in any sense of the word, to have hidden when you've read someone else's message? That's what this is about. >and you also think it's ok to just embed your vision of the world as a framework Just.. no. I never said that, or hinted at it. Stop reading motivations into my beliefs that do not exist.

well I was just trying to make the point on the implications some forms of viewing things and doors they leave open

but I guess this is also aching to political/ideological views, as I am very libertarian... Anyway, this argument has lost its purpose, better let it die, be good!

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