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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
121–130 of 304 posts
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what drives such high costs in US healthcare, some years back. My conclusion is everything does. This conveniently makes it easy to dismiss criticism of any one part (all of which are responsible) because “well they’re just increasing it a little—go look at these other things, they’re bad too, and if you add up all of that, they’re worse!” Right, but if you keep not ad…
Realistically, the big cost differential in absolute terms in healthcare are borne in the elder group (65+). See this: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7411536/ . This is exactly where the "government social safety net" takes effect (medicare and medicaid) and, in my opinion, the real spending bazooka of US subsidies take effect. I say this as someone who wound up owning one business in this area (health insu…
Look at the ratios though. US spending is about double in every age bracket. The really isn't anything special about the over 65 group.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another extremely popular person. Who violated that norm on camera and had it broadcast all over the place. And remained extremely popular. What norm?
I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying people are taking to fainting couches over norms violations. They're reacting to people like Taylor Lorenz literally calling for the assassination of people by name. In my case, past that, for Lorenz doing so based on a comically flawed understanding of what her target was doing.
I’m saying not-cheerleading-murder isn’t exactly a firm norm here anymore. Not even among the elites.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#124Health "insurance" companies in the US are not actually, primarily insurers. For the most part, they are not in the business of insuring rare events. Maybe they were primarily in the insurance business at some point in the past, but today they are mainly in the business of entrenching themselves in the middle of all interactions between patients, doctors, and hospitals, and extracting rents from all of them. Health "…
If I go to a doctor or get Lasik surgery, can't I pay them directly without using my insurance?
Yes, but unless it's literally Lasik, which has a robust private market, your provider will probably literally make a price up on the spot. That happened to me several years ago, when we needed urgently to get a CT scan for our daughter; it was late in the afternoon, the provider couldn't get the insurer on the horn, they proposed to do it the next day, I was jumpy and said "fuck it I'll pay out of pocket", they looked confused and then just made up a price: $1000.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. I almost added a comment about that too. In my experience, all doctors, nurses, and other caregivers with whom I have interacted at hospitals have told me they feel treated like "factory workers" who must meet stringent "quality of care" KPIs, set by hospital executives far removed from actual patient care.
So why are we putting jerseys on and taking the field against the insurers when virtually all of the actual money is going to providers? We could zero out all insurance costs, putting insurers into literal de jure indentured servitude, and get nothing more than a grocery store circular coupon discount on health costs, because insurers are not in fact where the costs are.
They are an integral part of the mess we're in, and they have a vested interest in the status quo.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern This is (was) the CEO of the largest health insurer in the country which has shown a lack of concern for paying out insurance or securing data both private and medical. Their data leak this year is second only to National Public Data's leak (also this year) of practically every single SSN on the planet and arguably worse because their leak also contains medical dat…
> this guy is also about the most unsympathizable man in the country. There's no way that is true. It's only remotely possibly true if you're only talking about people who at least nominally obey the rules and laws of society. You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer, or a rapist, or a child abuser, of which we have many, many thousands in this country.
> You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer, or a rapist, or a child abuser, of which we have many, many thousands in this country.
I think there is not much point in defining a single metric of "worse" because that is confusing. A rapist is worse if they are following your spouse. This guy is worse if he is about to make a decision that will prevent your loved one from getting medical treatment at the exact time that they need it.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#127> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…
I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.
In a society where democratic tools no longer function effectively—due to capture by concentrated powers—people often feel powerless to address systemic harms. I can understand how the only power an individual can have in that situation is something like murder.. but it’s making many assumptions.. like this person really was working as an individual from moral grounds in the interests of majority of society.. and that we can trust this moral judgement to and individual, as in today it might be an arguably utilitarian good but tomorrow it might be a cultural or religious thing.. will this action really would have any positive affect on healthcare results for many people, or change any behaviors of people in power apart from getting more security guards..
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm sorry, but where do these writers get off wagging their fingers and tut-tutting people who'd prefer not to spend their neurons on sympathy for someone at the helm of an inhuman system? And what exactly is your solution? Healthcare should be a charity from the rich? It should be nationalized, and somehow magically all the problems go away?
You’ve got the answer right there. It should be nationalized. And a major reason it will never be nationalized is because of lobbying by health insurance corporations.
Well that and people finding the idea repellant and voting against it.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recognize a distinction between a premeditated direct intent to kill someone, and whatever it was this guy did. If you have different values then you might not.
I do recognize a distinction as well - what this guy did was worse. Don't get my wrong, shooting someone in broad daylight is a bad thing and I will agree that we shouldn't encourage it. In this case I don't have any sympathy for the victim. There's a difference there - I recognize that the assassin is wrong but that's orthogonal to my sympathy (or in this case, lack of) for the victim. What the CEO did was worse. Wh…
The "banality of evil" was originally used to describe the bureaucrats who enabled the mass-murder of Holocaust victims (Godwin's law strikes again!). Their actual goal, the primary outcome they were trying to maximize, was murdering Jewish people and other "undesirables". I don't think this guy was trying to do anything on that level. I don't think he sat down every day and said "how do we kill more people?" Rather, he was working within a really bad system that has bad incentives and no one knows how to fix it.
Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay. So other than getting mad on HN, what do you propose we do to fix the feelings people have about this situation and prevent this happening again?
I don't think we're going to fix this problem on HN, so I'm content just to point out that a lot of what people are saying about this situation is unfounded.
I don't either, but people feel this way about millionaires and healthcare execs for a reason, they're not just being cruel for the sake of it. Think about the reasons for it, and try to come up with a solution. That's a way more interesting discussion than getting mad about people being dumb on BlueSky or whatever.