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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#51

Post by mgh95 »

vundercind wrote: post #12
mkmk wrote: post #4

[flagged]

I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what drives such high costs in US healthcare, some years back. My conclusion is everything does. This conveniently makes it easy to dismiss criticism of any one part (all of which are responsible) because “well they’re just increasing it a little—go look at these other things, they’re bad too, and if you add up all of that, they’re worse!” Right, but if you keep not ad…

Realistically, the big cost differential in absolute terms in healthcare are borne in the elder group (65+). See this:https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7411536/. This is exactly where the "government social safety net" takes effect (medicare and medicaid) and, in my opinion, the real spending bazooka of US subsidies take effect.

I say this as someone who wound up owning one business in this area (health insurance agency/producer) and was looking at expanding directly to the insurance providing aspect. I really think people underestimate just how generous (high cost) the "social safety net" is, and have a grass-is-greener view towards other countries healthcare systems for people currently working.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#52

Post by defen »

Dalewyn wrote: post #40
s1artibartfast wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

>What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern This is (was) the CEO of the largest health insurer in the country which has shown a lack of concern for paying out insurance or securing data both private and medical. Their data leak this year is second only to National Public Data's leak (also this year) of practically every single SSN on the planet and arguably worse because their leak also contains medical dat…

> this guy is also about the most unsympathizable man in the country.

There's no way that is true. It's only remotely possibly true if you're only talking about people who at least nominally obey the rules and laws of society. You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer, or a rapist, or a child abuser, of which we have many, many thousands in this country.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#53

Post by gerdesj »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #22

> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…

I'm terribly sorry, but all of your italicized fragments, taken in isolation, do paint a stark picture of the murder of a person.

You might have beef (or whatever you call it these days) with his job and industry but in the end a man was murdered. You may not like and "hate" seems appropriate to describe how you feel about a legitimate industry in the USA. Your issue is with a deeply embedded part of the US experience - health insurance, and not with this man.

Please attack the industry that you hate and not the individual ... who was murdered. That is what the journos are doing.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#54

Post by s1artibartfast »

Dalewyn wrote: post #40
s1artibartfast wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

>What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern This is (was) the CEO of the largest health insurer in the country which has shown a lack of concern for paying out insurance or securing data both private and medical. Their data leak this year is second only to National Public Data's leak (also this year) of practically every single SSN on the planet and arguably worse because their leak also contains medical dat…

Like I said, I dont think it is about sympathy, but not wanting to live in a country where people are murdered in the street. That is the part that is disgusting and dangerous.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#55

Post by DrillShopper »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #30
maybelsyrup wrote: post #22

> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

People only care about this because of who he was

If this were you or I it would be a segment on the 6 o'clock news and a cold case

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#56

Post by consumer451 »

cratermoon wrote: post #31
consumer451 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember how death panels were evil, but a bottomless layer cake of corporate bureaucracies making those same decisions, with added profit margins at each layer, was somehow perfectly fine? I am not trying to get political, or be flippant, I just truly marvel at how easily we are programmed. I mean all of us, myself included.

Death Panels: Big Gubmint deciding who lives and dies Private Health Insurers: Free Market!

Having grown up thinking that I was libertarian, the US healthcare system really killed that entire panacea for me.

It came down to this simple realization:

In a somewhat socialized healthcare system, every dollar not spent to benefit the patient is called waste, and we work to reduce it. [0]

In a for-profit healthcare system, every dollar not spent on the patient is considered shareholder value, and we work to increase it.

My hardcore libertarianism ideals died right there, at that realization.

[0] Let's keep it local and say that's medicare/medicade.

[0.1] Sorry, I did get political.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#57

Post by tptacek »

apsec112 wrote: post #46
tptacek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single-payer proposals have failed in state referenda in non-conservative states.

Yeah, the median voter position is not all the way to single payer but is still left of the status quo

Is it? Where do you see the boundaries here?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#58

Post by DrillShopper »

vdupras wrote: post #32
jbrot wrote: post #20

At first glance, this looks pretty similar to the Bob Lee murder last year. I find it interesting and a little surprising how different the reaction and coverage has been

This reminds me more of Chris Dorner. The manifesto is shorter, but this sense of injustice felt by the perpetrator is similar. Back in the days, mainstream media had enough control over the narrative to water down the "manifesto" part and avoid copycats. This time, "rogue" social medias are much more prevalent, so there's not much of a barrier to prevent the perpetrator from becoming a hero. We can think that copyca…

[flagged]

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#59

Post by CamperBob2 »

tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

The notion that the providers are the ones sucking up all the money in the healthcare industry is certainly... novel.

The majority of people in this particular industry have nothing to do with actually providing health care, just as the majority of employees at a major university have never stood in front of a blackboard.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#60

Post by vundercind »

shiroiushi wrote: post #37
vundercind wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what drives such high costs in US healthcare, some years back. My conclusion is everything does. This conveniently makes it easy to dismiss criticism of any one part (all of which are responsible) because “well they’re just increasing it a little—go look at these other things, they’re bad too, and if you add up all of that, they’re worse!” Right, but if you keep not ad…

>I will say that our private insurance system in particular seems to be responsible for most of the insanely-high indirect costs of our system. Lots of developed nations have private insurance systems, somewhat similar to the US. Both Japan and Germany have such systems, yet healthcare costs here in Japan are pretty cheap usually. (Here, it's a public/private system, kinda like Obamacare: if you don't have a job or a…

Sure, the actual universal element of other OECD healthcare systems is price controls, de facto or direct, not necessarily whether private insurance still exists. I don’t think even a majority outlaw private insurance, and it’s a major part of quite a few.
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