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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#31

Post by cratermoon »

consumer451 wrote: post #19
vineyardmike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comment betrays the reality of Americans interaction with healthcare insurance. It’s not about regulatory awareness, but angst over the system - People die because of the decisions made by insurance companies. If you read or hear the things people are saying, they’re expressing frustration over the way they’re treated by insurance providers and their policies. The costs across the industry are insane, an…

Remember how death panels were evil, but a bottomless layer cake of corporate bureaucracies making those same decisions, with added profit margins at each layer, was somehow perfectly fine? I am not trying to get political, or be flippant, I just truly marvel at how easily we are programmed. I mean all of us, myself included.

Death Panels: Big Gubmint deciding who lives and dies

Private Health Insurers: Free Market!

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#32

Post by vdupras »

jbrot wrote: post #20

At first glance, this looks pretty similar to the Bob Lee murder last year. I find it interesting and a little surprising how different the reaction and coverage has been

This reminds me more of Chris Dorner. The manifesto is shorter, but this sense of injustice felt by the perpetrator is similar.

Back in the days, mainstream media had enough control over the narrative to water down the "manifesto" part and avoid copycats. This time, "rogue" social medias are much more prevalent, so there's not much of a barrier to prevent the perpetrator from becoming a hero. We can think that copycats will emerge.

I guess that billionaires around the world are dusting off their "apocalypse bunker" protocol...

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#33

Post by tptacek »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #22

> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…

There's a distinction to be drawn between challenging norms of discourse like not speaking ill of the dead, and actively cheerleading murders, like "we should boycott Starbucks for providing evidence about the murderer to police", or Taylor Lorenz calling for the assassination of Anthem's CEO by name.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#34

Post by tptacek »

vdupras wrote: post #32
jbrot wrote: post #20

At first glance, this looks pretty similar to the Bob Lee murder last year. I find it interesting and a little surprising how different the reaction and coverage has been

This reminds me more of Chris Dorner. The manifesto is shorter, but this sense of injustice felt by the perpetrator is similar. Back in the days, mainstream media had enough control over the narrative to water down the "manifesto" part and avoid copycats. This time, "rogue" social medias are much more prevalent, so there's not much of a barrier to prevent the perpetrator from becoming a hero. We can think that copyca…

And, in case we all need a reminder: Chris Dorner was an actual monster, and his brief casting as a cause celebre a pretty big embarrassment in retrospect.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#35

Post by vundercind »

tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

> At any rate: there's no serious theory of change that begins with murdering health care industry people.

I dunno. This is the most publicly-united I’ve seen people against the industry maybe ever. Usually they’re separately-angry at the industry in their partisan silos (everyone hates it, more or less—hence the amazingly consistent and widespread reaction) but this has been the closest thing to a bipartisan healing moment since, like, the week after 9/11. Not particularly close to that, sure, but I can’t think of anything closer.

If this were part of a theory of change, it strikes me as no less serious than any other I’ve seen. At least.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#37

Post by shiroiushi »

vundercind wrote: post #12
mkmk wrote: post #4

[flagged]

I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what drives such high costs in US healthcare, some years back. My conclusion is everything does. This conveniently makes it easy to dismiss criticism of any one part (all of which are responsible) because “well they’re just increasing it a little—go look at these other things, they’re bad too, and if you add up all of that, they’re worse!” Right, but if you keep not ad…

>I will say that our private insurance system in particular seems to be responsible for most of the insanely-high indirect costs of our system.

Lots of developed nations have private insurance systems, somewhat similar to the US. Both Japan and Germany have such systems, yet healthcare costs here in Japan are pretty cheap usually. (Here, it's a public/private system, kinda like Obamacare: if you don't have a job or are between jobs or a part-time worker, you'll get government-provided insurance, which you have to pay depending on your prior income I think; when you have a regular full-time job, you get private insurance that your company contracts for. But the insurance works basically all the same way: you pay 30% of the actual cost, and the insurance company pays 70%.)

There's something uniquely bad about the American system, but honestly I don't know what it is. I suspect it has to do with very bad regulation, or a lack of it. Here, it seems the costs for many things (like necessary medical procedures) are strictly regulated by the government. Also, no one pays bills to insurance companies AFAICT: you just pay the healthcare provider, and they go to the insurance company for the remainder.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#38

Post by emeril »

tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

maybe so but it's definitely cathartic and that counts for something

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#39

Post by apsec112 »

Political operative here. If you're wondering why healthcare reform has been so hard to get and so piecemeal, even though most Americans want it, the big reasons are:

1) any reform has to get past the Senate, and the Senate gives a lot of extra weight to states with conservative electorates. In 2009, this meant the pivotal Senators were right-wing Blue Dogs, an independent (Lieberman), and a former Republican (Specter). In 2024, this means the pivotal Senator will be a conservative Republican, since Dems run fewer Blue Dogs, and liberals can't win states like North Dakota and Louisiana.

2) people don't only vote on healthcare; Democrats also support much less popular stances on other issues, especially immigration.

Lobbying etc. matters some, but is much less important than those two big ones.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#40

Post by Dalewyn »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #30
maybelsyrup wrote: post #22

> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

>What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern

This is (was) the CEO of the largest health insurer in the country which has shown a lack of concern for paying out insurance or securing data both private and medical. Their data leak this year is second only to National Public Data's leak (also this year) of practically every single SSN on the planet and arguably worse because their leak also contains medical data.

Murder is never okay, but this guy is also about the most unsympathizable man in the country.

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