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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#111

Post by defen »

jjj123 wrote: post #95
defen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this guy is also about the most unsympathizable man in the country. There's no way that is true. It's only remotely possibly true if you're only talking about people who at least nominally obey the rules and laws of society. You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer, or a rapist, or a child abuser, of which we have many, many thousands in this country.

When deciding who deserves my scorn, I genuinely do put those who are in power and commit atrocities at scale (like healthcare CEOs) above one-off violent criminals. Even if you’re a few levels removed from the deaths you’ve caused, you still have blood on your hands imo.

Would you rather have had this guy around you / your loved ones, or one of the people in the other groups I named?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#112

Post by tptacek »

vundercind wrote: post #97
tptacek wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you think pointing to another odious person rebuts my argument.

Another extremely popular person. Who violated that norm on camera and had it broadcast all over the place. And remained extremely popular. What norm?

I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying people are taking to fainting couches over norms violations. They're reacting to people like Taylor Lorenz literally calling for the assassination of people by name. In my case, past that, for Lorenz doing so based on a comically flawed understanding of what her target was doing.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#113

Post by tptacek »

coldpie wrote: post #94
tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

Okay. So other than getting mad on HN, what do you propose we do to fix the feelings people have about this situation and prevent this happening again?

I don't think we're going to fix this problem on HN, so I'm content just to point out that a lot of what people are saying about this situation is unfounded.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#114

Post by coldpie »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #100
coldpie wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what do you propose to do to fix it? I don't think scolding people on HN is going to accomplish much.

I dont know how to talk people from normalized murder.

Forget the individuals. How do you fix the system that lead people to feel this way?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#115

Post by DrillShopper »

Dalewyn wrote: post #102
DrillShopper wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People only care about this because of who he was If this were you or I it would be a segment on the 6 o'clock news and a cold case

I actually think the murderer would have been found and either arrested or killed for resisting arrest by now, were that the case. That the murderer, who killed someone in literal broad daylight on the sidewalk of one of the biggest cities in the world, is still on the loose speaks volumes to me about all sorts of things.

It speaks volumes as to how incompetent the NYPD is. NYC is one of the most policed cities with the most cameras constantly watching people, and the fact that a crime like this can happen in broad daylight and the perpetrator can remain a ghost is an indictment of that whole dystopian atmosphere and system

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#116

Post by tptacek »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #106
tptacek wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look, you can find pie charts that make the point I'm making directly, so no, I don't think it's novel.

The problem with our health insurance system is that it's insidious. Our doctors spend ~25% of their time filling out information that only gets filled out to try to get insurance to not deny the claims, and hospitals have entire billing departments whose only job is dealing with the billing of our stupid ass system. The problem isn't just the ~15% that the insurance companies take directly, it's that since their per…

Is that why they make as much as 3x what doctors in other G20 countries make? Hazard pay for the paperwork?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#117

Post by vouaobrasil »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #72
justinclift wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a system of laws and courts to decide what is criminal. Good when it works, but what happens when it fails?

yeah, blood in the street and mass death and destruction. Everyone killing everyone.

No way. Humanity since the dawn of time has always had the potential to mob when things became dire. We still have it today, only it is more controlled via technology and rationality. This killing will not start anarchy. But it does have the capability to start a resistance against existing power structures, and that is what everyone is actually (consciously or unconsciously) worried about. We are only conditioned to believe that anarchy might ensue as that is the easiest way to instill fear of rebellion against the power structure.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#118

Post by s1artibartfast »

emeril wrote: post #38
tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

maybe so but it's definitely cathartic and that counts for something

I dont think it counts for something good. I think it is giving in to one of the worst possible aspects of humanity. Like people cheering at a lynching.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#119

Post by econ40432 »

cs702 wrote: post #71

Health "insurance" companies in the US are not actually, primarily insurers. For the most part, they are not in the business of insuring rare events. Maybe they were primarily in the insurance business at some point in the past, but today they are mainly in the business of entrenching themselves in the middle of all interactions between patients, doctors, and hospitals, and extracting rents from all of them. Health "…

If I go to a doctor or get Lasik surgery, can't I pay them directly without using my insurance?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#120

Post by bodegajed »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #22

> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…

Unfortunately, it is the same system where journalists have bills to pay and mouths to feed, and their wages comes from advertising of these Fortune 500 companies.
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