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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#61

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #22

> But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children . The journalists' tone and choice of words here, which I've italicized, isn't helping the overall feeling many Americans have of "the people running the show have active and unceasing contempt for us", which of course is what's dr…

> I'm sorry, but where do these writers get off wagging their fingers and tut-tutting people who'd prefer not to spend their neurons on sympathy for someone at the helm of an inhuman system?

And what exactly is your solution?

Healthcare should be a charity from the rich?

It should be nationalized, and somehow magically all the problems go away?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#62

Post by UncleOxidant »

potato3732842 wrote: post #7

The hate was always there. It's just now newsworthy.

Definitely was already there. I'd guess that people hate insurance companies more than they hate politicians - in fact, I'd go so far as to say that at least some of the hate for politicians is sublimated hate for insurance companies and our Kafkaesque healthcare system. It's almost a bit surprising that this is the first time this has happened. And now that someone has done it, it seems likely that there will be copycat attempts.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#63

Post by justinclift »

defen wrote: post #52
Dalewyn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern This is (was) the CEO of the largest health insurer in the country which has shown a lack of concern for paying out insurance or securing data both private and medical. Their data leak this year is second only to National Public Data's leak (also this year) of practically every single SSN on the planet and arguably worse because their leak also contains medical dat…

> this guy is also about the most unsympathizable man in the country. There's no way that is true. It's only remotely possibly true if you're only talking about people who at least nominally obey the rules and laws of society. You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer, or a rapist, or a child abuser, of which we have many, many thousands in this country.

> You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer ...

The difference in opinion might be many people considering the guy himself to be a murderer, and not just of one or two people?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#64

Post by tptacek »

vdupras wrote: post #42
tptacek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, in case we all need a reminder: Chris Dorner was an actual monster, and his brief casting as a cause celebre a pretty big embarrassment in retrospect.

[flagged]

His two first victims, chosen deliberately, were completely innocent people. He selected them because one was the daughter of a police officer he'd had dealings with before. I don't think there's a rhetorical way out for you here.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#65

Post by vundercind »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #43
vundercind wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At any rate: there's no serious theory of change that begins with murdering health care industry people. I dunno. This is the most publicly-united I’ve seen people against the industry maybe ever. Usually they’re separately-angry at the industry in their partisan silos (everyone hates it, more or less—hence the amazingly consistent and widespread reaction) but this has been the closest thing to a bipartisan healing…

I think it is the most disgusted I have been with a broad swath of the public in a long time. I dont think anything productive will come of it.

The trouble is that nothing productive was going to come of anything else, either. That’s where these reactions come from.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#66

Post by s1artibartfast »

justinclift wrote: post #49
s1artibartfast wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

> Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. Sure. That includes the US health care system too. The company that person was the key decision maker for has apparently been murdering people for years legally. So, karma?

No, I disagree. We have a system of laws and courts to decide what is criminal.

People should not kill law abiding citizens they disagree with because everyone has a different opinion.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#67

Post by apsec112 »

tptacek wrote: post #57
apsec112 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the median voter position is not all the way to single payer but is still left of the status quo

Is it? Where do you see the boundaries here?

Polls consistently show the public supports Democrats more than Republicans on healthcare policy, even as they trust Republicans more on other issues like inflation and immigration

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#68

Post by jmyeet »

tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

I'm honestly not sure if I should attribute this comment to disingenuity, ignorance or just bad faith.

> pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast.

Not even close. BCBS was just pushing extra charges onto patients.

> insurers working to make surgeries cost less

This is laughably ill-informed, I don't know where to begin. The only thing insurers are doing is increasing the gap between what they collect and what they have to pay out. They do this by denying claims. Making the service cheaper has nothing to do with it.

> where medical staff are paid 2-3x more than they are in other countries

Because medical school is so expensive. Also, doctors spend 3-8 years working for minimum wage (ie medical residency) and the cost of billing and administration is enormous. One study showed a primary care doctor spent $99,000 a year on billing and roughly 25% of ER income spent on the same [1].

The US spends the most per capita on healthcare than any other OECD country, by about 50% (Switzerland is #2) [2] for less coverage, worse outcomes and lower life expectancy.

Medicare spends almost all (~98.5%) of its funds on patient care and ~1.5% on admin, compared to 15-25% on admin for private insurers (including Medicare Advantage).

It amazes me how concifently wrong and ignorant about a subject can be while having such strong opinions.

[1]: https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/finance/study-billing-for-m...

[2]: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/7a7afb35-en/1/3/7/2/inde...

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#69

Post by justinclift »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #66
justinclift wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. Sure. That includes the US health care system too. The company that person was the key decision maker for has apparently been murdering people for years legally. So, karma?

No, I disagree. We have a system of laws and courts to decide what is criminal. People should not kill law abiding citizens they disagree with because everyone has a different opinion.

> We have a system of laws and courts to decide what is criminal.

Good when it works, but what happens when it fails?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#70

Post by DrillShopper »

defen wrote: post #52
Dalewyn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern This is (was) the CEO of the largest health insurer in the country which has shown a lack of concern for paying out insurance or securing data both private and medical. Their data leak this year is second only to National Public Data's leak (also this year) of practically every single SSN on the planet and arguably worse because their leak also contains medical dat…

> this guy is also about the most unsympathizable man in the country. There's no way that is true. It's only remotely possibly true if you're only talking about people who at least nominally obey the rules and laws of society. You don't actually think that he was worse than a murderer, or a rapist, or a child abuser, of which we have many, many thousands in this country.

[flagged]
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