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Why did clothing become boring?

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Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#101

Post by harimau777 »

colechristensen wrote: post #85
082349872349872 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how, instead of with clothing, do subcultures express themselves now? By choice of memes? Which fanfic they read? Do people wear boring clothes but pick subculture-signifying avatars? EDIT: Looks like goths are still a thing? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zjg1P_2IPOQ

What happened is all of the counterculture/subcultures/whatever got so popular and kind of mellowed out and melted together into a bunch of samey stuff. Like how music went through this phase where "not mainstream" music started getting really cool but now all of those sounds are just what everything sounds like now, you can't rebel against mainstream music right now.

The way that I've heard it described is that capitalism now appropriates any subcultures that arise. That both serves as an avenue for profit and has the added benefit of suppressing anything that might inspire people rebel against the status quo.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#102

Post by quantadev »

Clamchop wrote: post #95
quantadev wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct that I care about utility, but incorrect that it's vanity/fashion.

It seems important to you that others understand you are strictly utilitarian, that you're not like the others that busy themselves with frivolities like jewelry and designer sneakers. You dress yourself in a way that clearly communicates that. Some items are off limits because they don't fit the look. Flip flops? Not even as shower shoes, because you're a grown man. Deep irony here.

I find it interesting when people try to redefine words to have the opposite meaning. We now have someone saying `utility` choices are actually `fashion/vanity` choices. lol. They're just transparently playing word games, on purpose, but it's still amusing.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#103

Post by harimau777 »

karaterobot wrote: post #89

I bet you'd find a lot more variety in a random sample of 100 people today than you would in, say, the 17th century. I think the way he's framing this is weird. He's comparing drawings of aristocratic costumes that were notable enough to archive for posterity, as well as pictures of people's ceremonial garb (and best going-to-meeting clothes) with an unevidenced claim that people today all dress alike (do they?). To…

I think that the difference might be that today's aristocratic costumes and ceremonial garb is largely boring. In both cases they are largely just suits or cocktail dresses. Even the more unique ceremonial garb that does exist (e.g. robes in high church congregations and academic robes) are worn very infrequently today.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#104

Post by harimau777 »

iammjm wrote: post #25

Why did clothes ever become NOT boring in the first place? Clothes are above all something that warms/protects/hides us from the world. Aesthetic contemplations are really just an afterthought. Also, "fashion" is one of the stupidest things ever, like oh hey, you should now replace your perfectly good clothes every season because someone says so??

You might be mistaking modern "fast fashion" with more traditional understandings of "fashion". There is nothing about fashion that requires clothing to be replaced every season. In fact, much of what we now think of as fashion was actually a form of recycling. All of those fancy ribbons, collars, and smocking we associate with Victorian fashion? Those existed to cover up repairs, allow worn out parts to be replaced, and to allow clothing sizes to be adjusted when it was handed down.

More generally, fashion is a powerful form of self expression that allows someone to project to the world how one wants to be perceived. Eliminating fashion because it's impractical would be like eliminating art as impractical.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#105

Post by colechristensen »

harimau777 wrote: post #101
colechristensen wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened is all of the counterculture/subcultures/whatever got so popular and kind of mellowed out and melted together into a bunch of samey stuff. Like how music went through this phase where "not mainstream" music started getting really cool but now all of those sounds are just what everything sounds like now, you can't rebel against mainstream music right now.

The way that I've heard it described is that capitalism now appropriates any subcultures that arise. That both serves as an avenue for profit and has the added benefit of suppressing anything that might inspire people rebel against the status quo.

This is just a weird attempt at being edgy about capitalism.

A new subculture either grows or dies, if it grows people start making money off of it and it gets diluted by the popularity into something more beige and palatable. It isn't about capitalism it's just when you add more people, they take it less seriously and hardcore becomes bland.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#106

Post by dhosek »

ghaff wrote: post #92
dhosek wrote: post #67

What I find interesting is that where traditional clothing has managed to maintain some sort of foothold, it’s almost invariably in women’s clothing. This is largely a superficial observation and is likely becoming increasingly false as time goes on and is based almost entirely on media representations, but I think someone more skilled and knowledgeable than me could find the boundaries of this observation against re…

Formal-wear for men is a pretty rare thing (and usually rented) outside of certain limited circles. Ties/jackets/suits are more common although there's been a big transition over the past few decades from them being the norm at a lot of industry events or even day-to-day office wear in a lot of roles. I still remember when the IBM booth staff showed up at one of the big shows wearing IBM logo polos. Every one else wa…

When I first started working, I wore a necktie to work Monday through Thursday and would never think of showing up to an interview not wearing a suit, and since then wearing a suit to an interview has become somewhat frowned upon and other than a brief flirtation with “necktie Tuesday,” I can’t remember the last time I wore a tie to work. It’s a pity because I look damn good in a suit.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#107

Post by ghaff »

dhosek wrote: post #106
ghaff wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formal-wear for men is a pretty rare thing (and usually rented) outside of certain limited circles. Ties/jackets/suits are more common although there's been a big transition over the past few decades from them being the norm at a lot of industry events or even day-to-day office wear in a lot of roles. I still remember when the IBM booth staff showed up at one of the big shows wearing IBM logo polos. Every one else wa…

When I first started working, I wore a necktie to work Monday through Thursday and would never think of showing up to an interview not wearing a suit, and since then wearing a suit to an interview has become somewhat frowned upon and other than a brief flirtation with “necktie Tuesday,” I can’t remember the last time I wore a tie to work. It’s a pity because I look damn good in a suit.

When I first started working, ties in the office but not working on-(work)-site. After grad school, suits were pretty common in product management/marketing/etc. and ties at least pretty common in general.

When I came in to talk to some people I mostly knew for my last job ~15 years ago, I did wear a tie and jacket and a couple people joked a bit but I knew them and they had been around long enough to know I just wasn't taking anything for granted.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#108

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

quantadev wrote: post #100
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that we just think about fashion differently. Putting thought into what you wear for any reason, functional or otherwise, is fashion. Beyond that, you're choosing a suboptimal and uncommon item for "utility" (a fanny pack) where other, better options would suffice. Why? I can't answer that, maybe to make a statement. In any case, this choice is "fashion". Props to you for going out wearing what you like and n…

You're just playing word games. Fashion means what's popular/trending and `utility` means the exact opposite.

> Fashion means what's popular/trending and `utility` means the exact opposite.

Does it? Never heard that one before. I see a lot of people wearing fashion that isn't currently popular or trending, and a lot of utilitarian fashion (look up "techwear")

I suppose I probably won't convince you otherwise, it seems very important to your belief system that utilitarian fashion choices not be considered fashion choices because otherwise it would mean you engage in fashion, a prospect you seem to find unpalatable.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#109

Post by dhosek »

ghaff wrote: post #107
dhosek wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first started working, I wore a necktie to work Monday through Thursday and would never think of showing up to an interview not wearing a suit, and since then wearing a suit to an interview has become somewhat frowned upon and other than a brief flirtation with “necktie Tuesday,” I can’t remember the last time I wore a tie to work. It’s a pity because I look damn good in a suit.

When I first started working, ties in the office but not working on-(work)-site. After grad school, suits were pretty common in product management/marketing/etc. and ties at least pretty common in general. When I came in to talk to some people I mostly knew for my last job ~15 years ago, I did wear a tie and jacket and a couple people joked a bit but I knew them and they had been around long enough to know I just was…

I remember once showing up to the office after taking the morning off and one of my co-workers asked why I was wearing a suit and I told him I had a job interview. He thought I was joking and later repeated this to someone else and then said that I had fooled him with that before.

Except I did have a job interview and I was so glad to be out of that workplace.

Re: Why did clothing become boring?

#110

Post by ghaff »

dhosek wrote: post #109
ghaff wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first started working, ties in the office but not working on-(work)-site. After grad school, suits were pretty common in product management/marketing/etc. and ties at least pretty common in general. When I came in to talk to some people I mostly knew for my last job ~15 years ago, I did wear a tie and jacket and a couple people joked a bit but I knew them and they had been around long enough to know I just was…

I remember once showing up to the office after taking the morning off and one of my co-workers asked why I was wearing a suit and I told him I had a job interview. He thought I was joking and later repeated this to someone else and then said that I had fooled him with that before. Except I did have a job interview and I was so glad to be out of that workplace.

A funeral is probably the best way to shut off that line of discussion.
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