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Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

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Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends where you go. Many places you will see zero homeless. Other places you can't throw a dirty syringe without hitting a homeless person.

Unnecessary demonization of the unhoused as only drug addicts. Have some empathy. Many places simply ship their unhoused elsewhere (I'm Canadian and I remember reading about Calgary paying for one-way bus tickets to Vancouver). In other places, the winters are literally unsurvivable outside.

At least where I live:

https://gazette.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-substance-a...

> Boulder County’s July 2024 Point in Time survey found nearly 40% of those interviewed said they abused “substances.” Another 30% said alcohol was their drug of choice.

And I wonder what percent of people didn't want to admit to abusing substances. And what percent of people viewed themselves as "using" substances, and not "abusing" them?

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#962
post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The perception of the economy being bad is really pervasive as demonstrated by the last election, and perception matters, because selective numbers don’t tell the whole story. Well saying "the economy is good" or "the economy is bad" out of context is simply moronic. Good for whom? Bad for whom? It's no secret our entire society is stacked to favor investors and owners rather than workers. The market certainly trea…

I also wonder how much the USD's role as the reserve currency plays into this. If I build a home for 1 MM USD today which used to cost 150k USD in 2008 - this looks like economic growth, despite the home largely being the same between the two periods. Certain categories of the CPI have experienced extreme inflation over the last 16 years, this gets reflected in the wages of the economically mobile and in turn raises…

Remember that the U.S. Dollar is one of many reserve currencies in the world. Other popular ones include the Japanese Yen, the British Pound, and the Euro. The dollar is just the one that is most dominant and for generally good reasons including sophisticated capital markets, rule of law, and the military might to force resolution of international disputes.

I think the main issue I see with your note about the difference in home prices is that you could stretch that out to say 1915 and 1950, and you’d be hard pressed to explain that economic growth was fake or don’t occur. Even in your example, the economy didn’t grow 6x, but how has resource utilization changed or supply and demand globally? I think a further analysis will show many factors going into that home price, and some of those very much are just simple economic growth and/or supply and demand of materials.

As always it’s also the location. Look at home prices in, idk, Toledo, Ohio. How have those fared in your same time period?

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#963
post #588

If you go to the doctor with a problem and get a blood test and they say that everything looks fine, but you don’t feel fine, then you don’t say: “well the numbers are right, I should feel fine”. Rather you try to find what the numbers aren’t capturing, because you know something is wrong. Same with the economy. The perception of the economy being bad is really pervasive as demonstrated by the last election, and perc…

[deleted]

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#964
post #588

If you go to the doctor with a problem and get a blood test and they say that everything looks fine, but you don’t feel fine, then you don’t say: “well the numbers are right, I should feel fine”. Rather you try to find what the numbers aren’t capturing, because you know something is wrong. Same with the economy. The perception of the economy being bad is really pervasive as demonstrated by the last election, and perc…

> The perception of the economy being bad is really pervasive as demonstrated by the last election, and perception matters, because selective numbers don’t tell the whole story. Well saying "the economy is good" or "the economy is bad" out of context is simply moronic. Good for whom? Bad for whom? It's no secret our entire society is stacked to favor investors and owners rather than workers. The market certainly trea…

A couple of points:

- Headline unemployment _is_ "people who want jobs [enough to be looking for them] but can't find one". The metric you linked to is including people outside the labor force and then weighting in a fairly opaque way. Between labor force participation being at the same point as it was 2014-2016 and unemployment being lower, I don't think it's fair to say unemployment stats are misleading. The point about underemployment is still definitely valid though.

- I'm with you that minimum wage should likely be higher, but federal minimum wage has never been intended to be "comfortable wage in a major metro". Major cities have their own minimum wages -- e.g., NYCs is $16/hr. Making $32k a year in NYC would of course not be comfortable, but is doable (eg you can rent a room in an apartment for $1k/mo, live off of oats and rice, etc). It's not intended to be a "head of household" wage, but "the least amount you can ever pay anyone"

Other than these nits I'm with you that stats don't cover the lived experience of all Americans and there's more too it than simply vibes. However I also do think that some of the vibecession is due to increasingly effective media manipulation to squeeze money from consumers. I (coincidentally just now) wrote a blog post explanding on this hypothesis here - https://medium.com/@digital-cygnet/manipulated-into-malaise-...

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying the economy is good. But according to polling, many folks who said the economy was "poor" before the November election now believe it's doing great. All in a very partisan fashion, of course: https://jabberwocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/blog_mi...

Not to put words in your mouth, but this comment seems to imply that politicians successfully painted a negative picture of the economy that didn't reflect reality and used that to win the last election. While I wouldn't put that past them, why was it successful this time and not every time? Nobody even tried to pretend the economy was bad when Clinton, Bush or Obama were up for re-election, because it obviously wasn…

Oh boy. Yes, they did. For example: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/us/politics/12bai.html

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#966
post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder how much the USD's role as the reserve currency plays into this. If I build a home for 1 MM USD today which used to cost 150k USD in 2008 - this looks like economic growth, despite the home largely being the same between the two periods. Certain categories of the CPI have experienced extreme inflation over the last 16 years, this gets reflected in the wages of the economically mobile and in turn raises…

Remember that the U.S. Dollar is one of many reserve currencies in the world. Other popular ones include the Japanese Yen, the British Pound, and the Euro. The dollar is just the one that is most dominant and for generally good reasons including sophisticated capital markets, rule of law, and the military might to force resolution of international disputes. I think the main issue I see with your note about the differ…

The real question then is why there are no paying jobs in Toledo, Ohio?

After all, it's really cheap estate and lots of reserve labor...

Ah right, and here we come to the critical issue which is horizontal integration. Even shipping to Toledo is going to be more expensive, not to mention availability of variety of things.

Then you get to deal with the interesting "small town culture" vibe, and lack of educational options.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#967
post #918
post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently lack comprehensive metrics to effectively capture critical factors that normal people consider when asked “is economy doing well”. Here’s what we need: Home Rent Affordability: Analyzing affordability by profession and location to reflect real-world dynamics. Home Price Affordability: Assessing how accessible homeownership is across regions. Education Costs: Understanding the burden of education expenses…

Luckily smart people have resources and a mandate to study each of those questions at scale. You might be interested in the work that the US Bureau of Labor Statistics ( https://www.bls.gov/ ) does on the economic side of labor conditions, and that the Census department’s American Community Survey ( https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/acs ) does on the demographic and social side. Both of these groups study quest…

Is that the same Bureau of Labor Statistics that revised their numbers down 818K, or 28% of original 2.9M jobs claimed to be added over the last year?

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#968
post #60
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not provide for or look after its citizens in the ways other developed countries do It's worth asking why. > NATO nations have cut back on troops and military hardware since the Cold War. But Europe has cut far deeper than the US. Defense budgets have become a pot that could be raided to fund more pressing priorities, such as treating and caring for aging populations. As a result, much of Europe’s military…

If we take a look at the % of US forces stationed in Europe, and assume all of them are there only out of the goodness of the US' heart to protect Europeans, and subtract them from total US military costs, it isn't even a drop in the bucket. It's less money than the Pentagon doesn't know what happens to. https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/article/307805... (This only covers the running costs; even an unfai…

That’s not a sensible analysis, given how NATO works. It isn’t even difficult to see how misguided that thinking is because you could simply recall the mounting hundreds of billions we’ve lately been sending to two non-NATO nations.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I wonder, along these lines, is whether we're measuring the right thing. For instance, does "thriving" depend on things like life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal mortality, quality of health care, pollution, crime, incarceration, traffic deaths, and so forth? The way I think about it, "economics" is supposed to study the quality of life, not just a few isolated numbers that happen to be in units of d…

Things are not bad in Mississippi: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/its-great-to-live-in-t...

Indeed, this is exactly what I'm talking about, an article cherry picking one number. I haven't been to Mississippi, but I've been to other areas of deep poverty in the US. I don't think there are regions of France with poverty like that.

Are we measuring the right thing?

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#970
post #588

If you go to the doctor with a problem and get a blood test and they say that everything looks fine, but you don’t feel fine, then you don’t say: “well the numbers are right, I should feel fine”. Rather you try to find what the numbers aren’t capturing, because you know something is wrong. Same with the economy. The perception of the economy being bad is really pervasive as demonstrated by the last election, and perc…

> The perception of the economy being bad is really pervasive

Because the economy is bad, and this is a "drank the Silicon kool-aid" article.

In the most recent tax filing season data available, there were tax returns of:

                                        Top 1%       Top 5%      Top 10%       Top 25%       Top 50%   Bottom 50%  All Taxpayers
  Number of Returns                  1,535,899    7,679,495   15,358,991    38,397,477    76,794,954   76,794,954    153,589,908
  Average Income Taxes Paid           $653,730     $187,468     $108,251       $50,963       $27,891         $667        $14,279 
  Adjusted Gross Income (Millions)  $3,872,395   $6,182,180   $7,745,525   $10,613,602   $13,191,209   $1,531,038    $14,722,247
If we then break those into the actual groups, and numbers per group, then we find their Average Per Capita Income

                                             1            5           10           25           50          100
  Number of Returns                  1,535,899    6,143,596    7,679,496   23,038,486   38,397,477   76,794,954
  Income Taxes Paid (Millions)      $1,004,063     $435,594     $222,966     $294,234     $185,068      $51,225 
  Adjusted Gross Income (Millions)  $3,872,395   $2,309,785   $1,563,345   $2,868,077   $2,577,607   $1,531,038 
  Average Tax Rate                       25.9%        18.9%        14.3%        10.3%         7.2%         3.3%
  Average Per Capita Income      $2,521,256.28  $375,966.29  $203,573.91  $124,490.69   $67,129.59   $19,936.70
This entire "booming" part, is the 1-5%. Out the rest of America, there are 38,397,477 making $67,129 on average and 76,794,954 making $19,936 on average. The filing thresholds are "single, under 65 = $12,950" and "head of household, under 65 = $19,400". Most of the bottom 50% of America "barely" would even qualify to file based on the Average Per Capita Income stated on their tax forms. 76,794,954 tax filers "barely" qualify to even file taxes they make so little money. Half.

How about, lets look at it a different way. Anybody notice what happened to McDonalds over the last decade and a half? Corporate McDonalds used to have 465,000 employees, now, McDonalds has 150,000. 300,000 employee reduction. 1/3 remain. [1] Btw, they're also -5,000,000,000 under water in equity [2] while they keep making happy meal financial reports. 2/3 reduction in workforce, barely even covered by the news.

The situation looks very similar with almost every peer company. Notably, some of the main jobs where people in the bottom 50% work. Jack in the Box (-$851,798,000, 45,700 -> 1,090 employees), Papa Johns (-$430,933,000, 23,100 -> 13,200), Yum Brands (-7,674,000,000, 90,000 -> 25,000), Dominos (-3,976,640,000, 14,500 -> 11,200). They all went submarine on equity and started shedding employees, yet all anybody will write about is the "booming" tech sector.

[1] https://tradingeconomics.com/mcd:us:employees

[2] https://tradingeconomics.com/mcd:us:equity-capital-and-reser...

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