I have a sneaking suspicion OpenAI will announce something very similar in a few days
Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
331–340 of 436 posts
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#332It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…
There are a lot of great storytellers who don't have the technical/design skills to bring their ideas to life. AI generation is going to make that part easier, which is a good thing.
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any estimates of how much one of these cost to generate and keep a minute of context? Secondly, any estimate of how much the price could fall in 5-10 years?
The price of LLMs has fallen 1,000 times in the last year for the same quality tokens. It's not clear if video models will follow the same trajectory.
I saw a demo of stable diffusion work so fast the images change as you type
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Probably why they talk so much about using it for AI training and evaluation rather than human use. What would they do / how would they use this output to make a better AI?
Embodied cognition is a core theory for AGI; this would enable a vast array of bodies, environments, and situations, that high level of diversity can empower AI adaptability. For a straightforward example, this could help Waymo rehearse driving in various cities and weather / traffic settings
Not meaning to pick at that example but a broader question the value of these, what use cases outside of games are they willing to let AI that is meant to interact with the real world be trained on AI synthetic data, that is like black box on black box, double the training and inference cost
Even in games I expect a game playing model to exploit glitches present in world building one
I think it's great that Google is researching these, but I can't see the return and if there is it is many steps away
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
From 2018 - https://www.erasmatazz.com/library/interactive-storytelling/... "There’s no question in my mind that such software could generate reasonably good murder mysteries, action thrillers, or gothic romances. After all, even the authors of such works will tell you that they are formulaic. If there’s a formula in there, a deep learning AI system will figure it out. Therein lies the fatal flaw: the output will be…
there's only really like seven basic plots; man v man, man v nature, man v self, man v society, man v fate/god, man v technology so we should probably just stop writing stories anyway
If there's an AI that can reliably come up with interesting and true new things to say about the human condition, I'm throwing in the towel.
Until then, I'll stick with human art
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#336It is jaw-dropping and dismaying how for-profit AI companies use long-standing terms like "world model" and "physics" when they mean "video game model" and "video game physics." Or, as you can plainly see, "models gravity" when they mean "models Red Dead Redemption 2's gravity function, along with its cinematic lighting effects and Rockstar's distinctively weighty animations." Which is to say Google is not modeling g…
A simulated world is also a world, and I can easily imagine if it would have been trained on real world data than it would have learner some of the real world's physics the same way, as the big video gen models already showing some of that. But all these models still seem very sample inefficient, they need lot of data to learn some basic rules of the world(s), and even then they are far from and human-like model that's includes math and logic for model the world more accurately...
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#337Google doing the "look how we can do this but you can't and you won't with our help" with more force than ever.
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why do you think that's true? > These will get faster and they will get controllable. Brother, you're preaching to the choir. I've been shilling generative tools for gamedev far harder than you are in your reply. :-) But I'm just relaying to you what actual gamedevs working and writing code right now need and for the foreseeable future for which projects have been started or planned. As Mike Acton says, "the proble…
I've written my own 2D and 3D game engines as well as worked in Unreal. I'm currently working on a controllable diffusion engine using Bevy. I strongly disagree that you need to cater to existing workflows. There's so much fertile ground in taking a departure. Just look at what's happening with animation and video. People won't be shooting on Arri Alexas and $300,000 glass for much longer.
> I strongly disagree that you need to cater to existing workflows.
I didn't say that these tools need to though. :-)
I said that actual high-end game developers need precise control over every aspect of their game. A developer needs to be able to say something as simple as: "I want to make my particle system to run at 30ps, while my cloth animation is 120fps, while my logic is at 60fps."
> I've written my own 2D and 3D game engines as well as worked in Unreal. I'm currently working on a controllable diffusion engine using Bevy.
Then you know all that I'm suggesting already! You probably have a list of the typical problems that game engine programmers are trying to solve when they build their own engines or have to modify Unreal Engine itself. You could even just watch GDC[^0] or the Graphics Programming Conference[^1] and ask how these tools solve the problems discussed.
Generative tools will create a new way of making games or game assets, but they won't eliminate the current way of making games.
Since you're building these generative tools alongside your game, you can demonstrate how they solve the kinds of problems game engine programmers need to solve and there's no need for us to misrepresent either side of the equation. Just give a presentation or publish an essay showing engine problems being solved at the standard a typical studio needs.
[^0]: https://youtube.com/@gdconf?si=F_n4G4zxQSny8BNC
[^1]: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLaly9x9rqjsXLW1tMFruyh_6...
Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model
#339This is.. super impressive. I'd like to know how large this model is. I note that the first thing they have it do is talk to agents who can control the world gen; geez - even robots get to play video games while we work. That said; I cannot find any: - architecture explanation - code - technical details - API access information Feels very DeepMind / 2015, and that's a bummer. I think the point of the "we have no moat…
[dead]