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The size of BYD's factory

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Re: The size of BYD's factory

#641

Post by mike_hearn »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #640
mike_hearn wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because gas taxes are an unusually live wire in US politics, not because roads are fundamentally uneconomic. Until 2008 gas taxes did cover highway spending, and they now require general transfers because gas taxes weren't indexed to inflation. According to this website the taxes weren't increased since 1993, so in practice the US system has been deliberately starved of sustainable revenue. https://taxpolicyce…

You've now admitted that most of the cost of maintaining and building roads in the US is borne by government subsidies. I just looked up how Germany funds its road network. It turns out that 2/3rds of the funding comes from taxes (subsidies, in other words).[0] 0. https://bmdv.bund.de/DE/Themen/Mobilitaet/Infrastrukturplanu...

Funding is a subsidy only if it comes from tax/borrowing sources that aren't related to the thing being subsidized. If taxes levied on driving fund driving, that's not a subsidy. Also that page seems to be talking about all transport including railways, but we're only interested in roads here.

Germany spends ~16B EUR per year on roads at the federal level:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293915/federal-expendit...

The amount it gets from motor taxes is vastly in excess of that:

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Enviro...

That's not surprising because Germany has the highest motor taxes in Europe:

https://www.acea.auto/press-release/motor-vehicle-taxation-b...

The US does subsidize roads but it doesn't have to, hasn't done so in the recent past and arguably shouldn't be doing so.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#642

Post by aguaviva »

mldqj wrote: post #636
aguaviva wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China did not support North Korea's invasion. I don't see how to read China's dispatch of 1.5M combat troops, taking on some 110,000 battle deaths (thus saving the invasion from imminent collapse) other than as "support" for the invasion.

By the time China entered the war, the invasion was already over. China entered the war for two reasons: 1) to make sure China was not invaded as MacArthur intended 2) to keep North Korea alive as a buffer, not to help invade South Korea. There was nothing to gain for China if the North unified Korea. Their relationship wasn't that good in the first place.

By the time China entered the war, the invasion was already over.

I don't see any substance the point you're trying to make here. One could try to say, "China was only trying to preserve North Korea's borders prior to the invasion". But once it pushed further south, into South Korea proper -- it was joining the invasion. There's nothing to debate here.

1) to make sure China was not invaded as MacArthur intended

And this just makes no sense at all.

MacArthur never intended to invade China, and didn't even start making noises about bombing China until after the it joined the war effort.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#643

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mike_hearn wrote: post #641
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've now admitted that most of the cost of maintaining and building roads in the US is borne by government subsidies. I just looked up how Germany funds its road network. It turns out that 2/3rds of the funding comes from taxes (subsidies, in other words).[0] 0. https://bmdv.bund.de/DE/Themen/Mobilitaet/Infrastrukturplanu...

Funding is a subsidy only if it comes from tax/borrowing sources that aren't related to the thing being subsidized. If taxes levied on driving fund driving, that's not a subsidy. Also that page seems to be talking about all transport including railways, but we're only interested in roads here. Germany spends ~16B EUR per year on roads at the federal level: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293915/federal-expendit.…

Germany is highly federal. The federal government only covers a portion of the cost of road construction and maintenance, with state and local governments carrying much (a majority, I think) of costs.

From what I see in your 2nd link, motor taxes do not even cover the federal government's contribution to road construction and maintenance, not to even mention what state and local governments pay.

You're saying the US doesn't have to subsidize roads, but removing that subsidy would require the US to raise fuel taxes and tolls by 200%. Rail can also break even if prices are increased. The reason governments subsidize HSR is because it has positive externalities.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#644

Post by t0bia_s »

suraci wrote: post #611
ebruchez wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not taking your word for it at all, but if they "laugh" at this, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps

You know what? Most of you don't even know a single Uigur in your whole life, everything you learnt about Xinjiang/Uigur is from western media(ofc, wikipedia, The "Free" Encyclopedia, and from some random "Xinjiang experts" who funded by some Hawkish think tanks which backed by the US gov. But I do know many westerners like you in HN, Twitter, etc. And, since I have the more reliable information and experience, just…

How your knowing westerns from HN and Twitter makes your opinion more reliable than westerners that know about you from wiki?

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#645

Post by willyt »

mike_hearn wrote: post #607
willyt wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TGV in France makes a profit. As does the Shinkansen in Japan. Intercity routes in the UK aren't high speed but are all profitable. Rural rail lines are not profitable and commuter lines are about break-even, depending on the fares charged. E.g. the tube in London is break even as it receives no operating subsidy, but it's quite expensive compared to e.g. the Paris / Madrid / Berlin metros. If you want to lubrica…

TGV doesn't make a profit by any normal accounting standards. As far as I know every line except Paris-Lyon has received large subsidies. The Bordeaux-Toulouse line requires a subsidy of 35 EUR per year per passenger for the next 50 years. Nor are tickets even cheap as a consequence. Supposedly it's cheaper to drive the moment you have at least two people in the car (I haven't checked that claim, probably there are r…

Citations please. I believe the opposite of much of what you said is true. Here are my references.

SNCF is profitable: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/02/24/sncf-re...

Pre-pandemic the main intercity routes were all private operated. The operators had to pay track access charges to cover maintenance costs but they also had to bid to the government to buy the rights to operate the franchise. I.e they had to say how much profit per train service they were willing to pay to the government for the right to operate. The privatised rail sector collapsed because these companies overbid for these rights not because the routes themselves were fundamentally unprofitable.

TFL operating surplus: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2023/march/...

Japan has never closed a shinkansen route. They have closed many rural branch lines though.

Britain has a low immigration rate compared to Europe. E.g net gain ~750k compared to 1.9m to Germany last year. Germany also has high rates of unemployment for unskilled labour yet they have a sophisticated and highly automated high tech manufacturing economy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration#/media/File%3ANe...

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#646

Post by foxglacier »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #276
foxglacier wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. One required component is plain old fashioned oversupply of labor. America doesn't have that because all employable people are too rich. China also has an oversupply of skilled labor like engineers, in part because the threat of poverty is a strong motivator to get rich. America also lacks that which you can see in capable young people doing arts degrees with no thought to their future income because it doesn't m…

> they'll still live comfortably even on minimum wage. You made a few good points until this one. No one in the US is living comfortably on minimum wage.

Comfortable enough to not be worth undergoing extreme pressure to succeed like people do in China and India. Even a skilled tradesman is a highly paid career in America but it's poverty in China.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#647

Post by foxglacier »

rob74 wrote: post #310
aurareturn wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relative. Relative to the rest of the world (and China), you can still live comfortably on minimum wage.

You can still live comfortably on US minimum wage if your cost of living is like in China?

Not just cost of living is lower, but standard of living is too. I know people in China who had full-time jobs but would recover meat from other people's rubbish to eat, or who lived illegally in a garage. That's homeless-level lifestyle for America and doesn't require any job at all.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#648

Post by jujube3 »

recursive wrote: post #256
jujube3 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we only do a little bit, we'll only accomplish a little bit.

Yes, we'd better not do a little bit. Surely then, we'll accomplish a lot.

Perhaps we could spend the billions on electric cars rather than on unused bicycle lanes.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#649

Post by Bobbyddxxd »

digitalsurgeonz wrote: post #489
ebruchez wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has never invaded outside its traditional borders Your notion of "traditional borders" is where this becomes nonsense. With a little bit of revisionist history you can justify all sorts of invasions, such as the 1959 invasion of Tibet, or the desire to retake Taiwan. In reality, China is an empire, with several of its regions very unhappy to part of it (Tibet, Xinjiang, and probably more if you could only ask it…

Only empire which exists right now is the western empire lead by US, its days are numbered, then when the propaganda curtain falls, it will be a shock. I had people of Xinjiang as my class mates, they laugh at your propaganda.

[flagged]

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#650

Post by mike_hearn »

willyt wrote: post #645
mike_hearn wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TGV doesn't make a profit by any normal accounting standards. As far as I know every line except Paris-Lyon has received large subsidies. The Bordeaux-Toulouse line requires a subsidy of 35 EUR per year per passenger for the next 50 years. Nor are tickets even cheap as a consequence. Supposedly it's cheaper to drive the moment you have at least two people in the car (I haven't checked that claim, probably there are r…

Citations please. I believe the opposite of much of what you said is true. Here are my references. SNCF is profitable: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/02/24/sncf-re... Pre-pandemic the main intercity routes were all private operated. The operators had to pay track access charges to cover maintenance costs but they also had to bid to the government to buy the rights to operate the franchise. I.e they ha…

That TFL press release says they rely heavily on subsidies from central government, will continue doing so and that reconfirmation of these central subsidies is a "pressing need". Don't be misled by propaganda from public transport authorities. They always lie about their own economics, unfortunately. It's fundamentally not a form of transport that would exist if it weren't kept alive by governments. The other stuff is all like that too. They are "profitable" if you use a definition of profit that would result in jail time in the private sector.

> The 2023/24 budget has been developed on the assumption that the current funding agreement with Government, which lasts until April 2024, remains in place and is fully honoured, including in relation to adjusting the quantum of support provided to TfL in 2023/24 to reflect latest inflation rates.

While TfL has a current funding agreement with the Government until the end of March 2024, there is also a pressing need for the Government to confirm the £475m that TfL needs in 2024/25 to support the delivery of the committed contracts for rolling stock and signalling on the Piccadilly line and the DLR.

The Government has consistently recognised in the funding settlements that TfL is not expected to fund major capital projects from its operating incomes.

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