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I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

benhouston3d.com

411–420 of 436 posts

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're doing CD where every push is an automated deploy a small company might easily have a hundred deploys a day. So you need seamless deployments.

I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say a "small" company easily does 100 deployments a day.

Not necessarily. Some companies prefer to have a "push to master -> auto deploy" workstyle.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which book would that be, out of interest?

Kubernetes in Action

A book from 2017? Is that still relevant to understand a modern Kubernetes cluster?

The CNCF ecosystem looked a lot different back then.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#413
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

Kubernetes was developed by Google, and it seems to me it's a classic example of a technology that can work well in a resource-rich (people, money) environment. But in an averge business it becomes a time/money sink quite quickly. Way too many businesses cargo-cult themselves into thinking that they need FAANG-class infra, even though they haven't got the same scale or the same level of resourcing. Devs and ops peopl…

K8s is absolutely not Google-scale. Not even close. The scheduler is not built for it.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developers want to use PaaS and also AWS or Azure so they can put it on their resume for the future. I think this is a little disingenuous. Developers want to use them because they already know them. The services composing them are also often well documented by the provider. I say all of that as someone trying to move a company away from aws, and over to our own hardware.

I want to use them because I'm not paying for it and managing your own hardware is a pain in the ass I'd rather avoid when I could just code instead. Which is not to say that using your own hardware isn't smart, but it is definitely miserable.

But you don't "manage your own hardware" if you are renting VMs, which was the question here.

Also managing a cloud infrastructure is a lot more complex than running Debian and Ansible on a VM.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#415
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

All of these anecdotes seem to come from people who don’t bother to try to learn kubernetes. > YAML files, and then spend a day fixing them by copy-pasting increasingly-convoluted things on stackexchange. This is terrible behavior. Its not any different from yanking out pam modules because you’re getting SSH auth failures caused by a bad permission on an SSH key. > If I get to tens of millions of users, maybe I’ll wo…

> It’s there so you’re not dependent on some bespoke VM state. It also allows you to do code review on infra changes like port numbers being exposed

That's simply not true.

Every Kubernetes cluster I have seen and used gives a lot more leeway for the runtime state to change than a basic Ansible/Salt/Puppet configuration, just due to the sheer number of components involved. Everything from Terraform to Istio and ArgoCD are all changed in their own little unique way with their unique possibilities for state changes.

Following GitOps in the Kubernetes ecosystem is something that requires discipline.

> environments where “maintenance downtime” is acceptable and there are only one or two people that actually adjust the configurations

Yes, because before Kubernetes that was how all IT was done? A complete clown show, amirite?

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#416
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

Installing a docker container (I am referring to your "cloud" point) and maintaining it is orders of magnitude easier that managing a service on a VM. I do IT stuff since 1994 (pro and perso) and I have seen it all (just an expression, I actually saw 2% of the all :))

I have about 30 services at home, they do not require maintenance. They just update on their own (Home Assistant failed once in the last 10 years), there are no dependency hell and I need to only maintain one OS.

I like to code and the idea to hace "service as code" or rather "service as yaml" is great (though I hate yaml)

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, because Kubernetes is convoluted and not fun and is stupidly bureaucratic. I might learn to enjoy being kicked in the balls if I practiced enough but after the first time I don't think I'd like to continue. > This is terrible behavior. Its not any different from yanking out pam modules because you’re getting SSH auth failures caused by a bad permission on an SSH key. Sure, I agree, maybe they should make the en…

> Sure, because Kubernetes is convoluted and not fun and is stupidly bureaucratic. Describe what you think bureaucratic means in a tool. > I might learn to enjoy being kicked in the balls if I practiced enough This is the same thing people say who don’t want to learn command line tools “because they aren’t intuitive enough”. It’s a low brow dismissal holding you back.

When I say “bureaucratic”, I mean having to edit multiple files for something that doesn’t seem like it should be very complicated.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#419
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

Kubernetes allows me to treat hardware more like software and like it very much for this reason.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#420
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

I think a good compromise is building your applications in a containerised manner so that you can simply run them with docker-compose, but then if it turns out you need some heavy scale, it's merely a case of switching the underlying infrastructure. That said, my experience has been fairly different. Running microk8s on a VPS with some containers and an ingress just seems like a nice way to spin them up as pods and m…

I love the idea of declarative infrastructure but I'm never considering a bunch of YAML files as a good practice.

Stuff like k9s / microk8s / k3s are clutches and workarounds and I hope we all see it.

If they figure to use an actual programming language or just start using much smaller amount of files than they currently do then I'd be the first to learn k8s.

Before that, nope.

I love the idea but the implementation makes me want to slit my wrists.

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