If someone has this level of control of my system, pictures of me are my least concern. You can have them. Fuck off away from my bank account tho.
Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
231–240 of 554 posts
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#232[dead]
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#233I assumed that most if not all of these webcam LEDs are wired in series with the power to the camera itself. Which then makes it impossible to disable them. Who designs this LED to be software addressable?
Assuming Hanlon's razor it's a Chesterton's fence situation you just see a LED that indicates the camera is on. Assuming they ask the question at all they think it's just to remind you your still streaming/in a meeting. Then someone asks any of the following questions: Can we use it to indicate additional information? Can we make it standard with the other LEDs? Can we dim it so it's more pleasant to use at night or…
What do you mean by Hanlon's razor and Chesterton's fence?
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect most people don't want it. I can imagine lots of people calling customer service "Q: why doesn't my camera work?", "A: Did you open the cover?" There's just a valid an argument to do the same for phones. How many phones ship with camera covers and how many users want them? You can get a stick on camera cover for $5 or less if you want one. I have them on my laptops but not on my phone. They came in packs of…
> I can imagine lots of people calling customer service "Q: why doesn't my camera work?", "A: Did you open the cover?" In some over-engineered world, when the camera cover is engaged the webcam video feed would be replaced by an image of the text "Slide camera cover open" (in the user's language) and an animation showing the user how to do so.
This doesn’t seem that wild to me. Zoom already prompts me to unmute my microphone when I cough.
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
A capacitor can hold enough charge to power led for noticable amount of time even if powered for a brief moment, no logic needed
I don't think they would waste a high value capacitor just to keep a led lit for longer, also a led directly lit by a capacitor would be noticeable by slowly dimming when the capacitor discharges. It's more likely that the signal driving the led comes out of a monostable implemented in code: pin_on() drives the led on; pin_off() waits n secs then drives the led off.
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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#236I got a webcam with a built in cover, so that's not an issue for me. Microphones are creepy, however.
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not an EE by trade, but I personally wouldn't want to put a CCD in series with an LED with god-knows-what Vf tolerances. Then again, I'd bet that nearly all laptop webcams come as off-the-shelf modules with their own internal regulators for the CCD anyway. So maybe it wouldn't matter. I'll bet it went something like this: As originally specified, the user need was "LED privacy indicator for the webcam." Product m…
Could you wire it with a relay/transistor?
I'd just add a resistor and stick it + the LED in parallel with the camera module. If it's a white LED and a 1.8V supply, you might not even need the resistor (you should probably still put a 0 ohm link in there though, just in case).
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#238I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.
That's why many ThinkPads have physical covers over their cameras. You don't even need to worry about whether the LEDs are hardwired - relying on any electronic indicator is already a half-baked security measure. If you want real security, just go with a physical solution.
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#239I am not a hardware engineer or anything of the sort. My laptop has a slide shutter over the webcam, but this obviously does nothing about the microphone. How difficult/error prone would it be for the power signals to the microphone and camera to be individual wires/traces and have a physical switch that breaks the power or data connection physically? Surely these are very low voltage so the switch could be like the…
My Framework 13 has this - 2 physical switches next to the camera. I would assume (but haven't checked), that they physically disconnect the camera/mic.
Yes it disconnects power: https://youtu.be/k6AsIqAmpeQ?t=1021
Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230
#240Of course it can. Cameras and microphones and write enable must have physical switches, not software ones. When will people learn? Never. Me, I unplug the camera and mike when not in use.
Agreed. I find so much peace of mind in the microphone / webcam hardware switches of my Framework laptop. Seeing the webcam actually vanish from the list of devices is very nice. :D
In their new upcoming webcam module for Framework they would still cut off the sensor power, but not the USB interface due to usability issues (e.g. in my experience Google Meet can detect the camera after the privacy switch turned on, but Zoom and Microsoft Teams do not)