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Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

londonbanker.blogspot.co.uk

21–30 of 140 posts

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#21
post #4

I don't understand why this stuff isn't front page news of mainstream (cnn, fox news, etc.) newspapers. You'd figure with all the lingering resentment this would be a huge field day. Currently relegated to business news journals.

It's very big news in the UK.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#22
post #17

There should be another entry in the YC RFS http://ycombinator.com/rfs.html : 10. Kill Wall Street (etc.) We now have the technology to completely remake the financial system -- not just make 'banking' or whatever easier online, but a thorough and innovative re-imagining of what the whole thing should even be about. Information structure is the essence of all cooperative systems, and that means the economics of tomor…

You get back to some very deep concepts in economics and finance.

Value is defined based on trust and faith. I accept dollars for goods I produce because I believe that I can then turn around and give the dollars to get other goods. It's a trust issue throughout the economy.

Many of the problems associated with the economy hinge on the very usage of the dollar or renminbi or whatever currency you use. You need to replace that currency. As we saw with BTC, it's not a simple task to replace a currency and maintain a trust structure throughout critical infrastructure. We are willing to lend trust to the sovereign but your task would be to establish faith in this other entity.

Unfortunately, you will need to establish a new currency to accomplish your goals. This is far beyond the scale of a YC startup.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#23
The trouble with articles like this is that they focus entirely on the problems created by 'relaxation' of regulation, but the benefits are not discussed. What we need to know is the net outcome (if it's knowable... But it's definitely worth discussing).

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#24
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, IMHO, Barclay's is taking alot of heat for the entire industry. They were correctly reporting their libor rate, which scared some people as it was higher than other banks libor rates. Partially because other banks were lying, partially because they were in more trouble than other banks. The government asked Barclays to falsely report their libor rate at a lower amount. This has the effect of lowering the report…

> The government asked Barclays to falsely report their libor rate at a lower amount. Allegedly

Tucker has fallen back on the "no recollection" defence, which is only one step up from "only following orders". Looks like him and Diamond are sacrificing themselves to protect the real power brokers.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#25
post #17

There should be another entry in the YC RFS http://ycombinator.com/rfs.html : 10. Kill Wall Street (etc.) We now have the technology to completely remake the financial system -- not just make 'banking' or whatever easier online, but a thorough and innovative re-imagining of what the whole thing should even be about. Information structure is the essence of all cooperative systems, and that means the economics of tomor…

This is a wonderful piece of waffle, but I'm trying very hard to find any abstract or even remotely concrete idea that it would describe that doesn't in some way model our existing markets, which already exist in almost every conceivable formulation, with and without regulation, with and without every kind of fee/commission/rebate/order structure imaginable.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#26
> We need to rethink as a society what banks are for, what exchanges are for, and what clearing houses are for. If they are for the profit of the few at the expense of the many now, that is because it is the business model we have permitted.

Is that really true compared to Silicon Valley? Do banks concentrate wealth a lot more than a Google or a Facebook? If not, how would you feel about some random dude commenting on his blog: "We need to rethink as a society what tech startups are for, what angel investors are for, and what venture capitalists are for. If they are for the profit of the few at the expense of the many now, that is because it is the business model we have permitted."?

Regardless, if banks are "concentrating wealth" they must be doing something right since after all, the ultimate purpose of a business is to make money. If they do so through illegal means (fraud, deception, etc.), we already have a legal system in place to deal with that. If they don't serve us well, we have the ability to vote with our money and move to another bank which treats us well.

If those two mechanisms are failing us, as some people claim, I'd be genuinely curious to know why it fails specifically for banks while it works wonders in other industries such as tech. I'm tempted to think that it is because the barrier to entry to the banking industry is so amazingly high largely due to regulations that it favors a few large banks at the expense of eventual competitors. I'd be curious to hear what others here think and welcome rebuttals.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should I get out of that? I see that some banks wanted it higher, some wanted it lower. That doesn't seem like a scandal.

Well, IMHO, Barclay's is taking alot of heat for the entire industry. They were correctly reporting their libor rate, which scared some people as it was higher than other banks libor rates. Partially because other banks were lying, partially because they were in more trouble than other banks. The government asked Barclays to falsely report their libor rate at a lower amount. This has the effect of lowering the report…

That didnt quite happen that way.

Emails from the brokers in wall street clearly show that people from within the bank, not the govt, were asking for low ball rates. It was the bank serving its own interest here.

These are the infamous "when I write a book, I'll mention you" / "I hope this never gets written" lines.

Regarding your statement about instructions from on high -you are alluding to the comments by Bob Diamond, head of Barclays, about Tucker, the deputy governor of the bank of England. The full,emails have been released and they show little compelling evidence of instructions, but more of paying attention to the Barclays high borrowing costs, implying lack of confidence.

The rest is fine.

Source: Bbc http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18759479

Trader emails http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/05/barclays-se...

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#28
post #20
post #17

There should be another entry in the YC RFS http://ycombinator.com/rfs.html : 10. Kill Wall Street (etc.) We now have the technology to completely remake the financial system -- not just make 'banking' or whatever easier online, but a thorough and innovative re-imagining of what the whole thing should even be about. Information structure is the essence of all cooperative systems, and that means the economics of tomor…

You're missing that all of these things have valid uses. Take CDS for example. They're a very efficient way for organizations to mutually insure each other's risks, cutting out the middleman. The trick is to cross them with two uncorrelated things (pork bellies and frozen OJ, for example) rather than using defaulted mortgages to insure umm defaulted mortgages. Or CDOs, done right they're how a bank protects itself ag…

How can CDOs be both limited in abuse as well as a meaningful

The problem is that in any realm, commotidization acts as a one-way function, with enough complexity it becomes difficult or impossible to track, thus allowing effective money laundering (or outright theft).

The real problem is lack of oversight, or traceability inherent in these devices. This draws in shady money and, essentially, evil.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#29
post #24
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government asked Barclays to falsely report their libor rate at a lower amount. Allegedly

Tucker has fallen back on the "no recollection" defence, which is only one step up from "only following orders". Looks like him and Diamond are sacrificing themselves to protect the real power brokers.

The emails are available though, so recollection or not it's clear no pressure is being applied.

At the same time it's clear that the traders were pushing for rates to be fixed, which is why they got fined.

Re: Lies, Damn Lies and LIBOR

#30
post #21
post #4

I don't understand why this stuff isn't front page news of mainstream (cnn, fox news, etc.) newspapers. You'd figure with all the lingering resentment this would be a huge field day. Currently relegated to business news journals.

It's very big news in the UK.

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