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The size of BYD's factory

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Re: The size of BYD's factory

#621

Post by tmnvix »

dr_kiszonka wrote: post #616
tmnvix wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of them here in NZ. Definitely no reputation for being 'crap'. By all accounts they are quality vehicles. The local car share business has a large fleet. I'm pretty confident that once the Seagull lands we will see a lot more. I expect it to be the modern equivalent of the late 90s - early 00s Hyundai Excel. That was an entry level car that blew everything else out of the water in Australia due to low…

It was explained to me that Americans buy SUVs because they feel safer in them than in, e.g., sedans.

I used to believe that this was the reason too. Now I think that this is just a convenient post-hoc explanation. People tell themselves this when the real truth is that they've been manipulated by a bald-faced marketing coup that appealed to some pretty base desires for self image.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#622

Post by ElevenLathe »

mike_hearn wrote: post #608
ElevenLathe wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air travel is also heavily subsidized, and road travel even more so. One of the real reasons for the interstate highway system (not the purported reason -- defense -- that got the bill through Congress) was to break the back of the rail monopolists (and, importantly, the rail unions). The American state chose to literally invent a whole new kind of socialized transport (marketed as a form of consumer individualism) t…

Air travel is taxed not subsidized. As far as I know there are no subsidies to the airline industry, unless you get into very ideological arguments by claiming the US military is a form of subsidy to anything that depends on fossil fuels. Double checking Wikipedia confirms this. After a huge page listing all the taxes, there's one unsourced paragraph claiming that "some" governments subsidise air travel with a "who?"…

There's not really a way to have this discussion without being ideological but military contracts, fossil fuel production subsidies (yes there is a tax on the fuel, but also a subsidy to the people pumping and refining it), and municipally-financed airports (including the tax subsidy on muni bonds) all seem to be pretty direct subsidies that the air travel industry would not exist without. Air traffic control is also a 100% governmental function that is necessary for the industry to exist.

On what you would probably term the more ideological side, there is noise pollution, environmental costs (this one is admittedly likely a wash -- it's not as if our airports would be nature reserves if they weren't used for aviation), and presumably a major hit to revenue and quality in major metro areas -- is O'Hare really the best possible use of that extremely extremely valuable piece of Chicago real estate, or could it generate more revenue for the city and happiness for citizens as housing, shops, commercial and industrial space, and parks?

Anyway have a good day. I'm glad you're a fan of motoring and aviation and hope it brings you great joy.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#623

Post by CyberDildonics »

deadfoxygrandpa wrote: post #604
bluGill wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Details matter. Chinese have more in some areas, less in others. China also sometimes does things just for a show, so maybe that villager was allowed to now sell so they could off how progressive they were - while they take lots of other property. China also has a corruption problem (as does all countries!), maybe that villager belonged to the CCP and so had extra rights. Until we get down to details it is hard to sa…

many, many chinese people WANT their property to get eminent domained, because they can get well compensated for it. sometimes it's even above market rates or they'll be given multiple apartments (that they can then rent out) in exchange for giving up property that will be developed. a lot of older housing stock that the owners dont even live in is being held on to and not sold just because these people are hoping th…

If they want to give up something they have for the money that's being offered, that's called selling.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#624

Post by themaninthedark »

grecy wrote: post #506
themaninthedark wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were right about those regulations. The CAFE is why we now have the proliferation of huge trucks and SUVs instead of sedans. Cars from Japan, 2000 or current that are clean aren't street legal here because they don't meet the safety standards. Those safety features add weight, which in turn drive down the efficiency.

> Cars from Japan, 2000 or current that are clean aren't street legal here because they don't meet the safety standards I've seen this repeated for 25 years now, and to be honest I think it's simply not true. Can you list one safety standard they don't meet? The GT-R is identical as sold in Japan and the USA (well, actually, the US version has wider seats - true story). Even when that one guy homologated the R32 Skyl…

I am not familiar with the NHTSA and EPA regulations to point you to one specfic place in the code but here is a citation. Also a lot of the Japanese vehicles that people point to as being more efficient are Kei class, these vehicles don't meet NHTSA code as they would not survive the crash tests.

https://gearshifters.org/nissan/how-to-import-a-nissan-silvi...

>Beginning in January 2024, the 1999 Nissan Silvia S15 will turn 25 years old. It will no longer be subject to NHTSA regulations after it turns 25 and can be legally imported into the USA.

>Because it did not adhere to federal safety and environmental regulations and featured a right-hand steering column, like cars in England, this particular vehicle was deemed unlawful in the United States. However, some Silvia vehicles have been registered in the US after being modified to comply with US laws.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#625

Post by tomcam »

deadfoxygrandpa wrote: post #606
tomcam wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True and good on them, but I suspect you’re not hanging out in a lot of the backwater provinces where industrial development is happening

i've been to a lot of smaller cities, provinces, and rural areas in china over the past decade+ and it really has got a lot better everywhere. it's not fake and not limited to a few developed areas

Fantastic! I happily withdraw my point. Thanks for the correction.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#626

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mike_hearn wrote: post #609
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People take HSR sometimes because it's heavily subsidized, especially in China. Most forms of transportation are subsidized. Good transportation infrastructure benefits the entire economy, so governments subsidize it. The fact that people can travel between cities easily and quickly facilitates business. > China's railway is in a staggering amount of debt due to mass overbuilding HSR is heavily utilized in China. A…

Most forms of transport aren't subsidized. Air travel and road travel isn't. Cargo shipping isn't. > The fact that people can travel between cities easily and quickly facilitates business. Governments like claiming this but dig in and you'll find they have no robust evidence for it. It also just fails a quick reality check: if it were true then passenger railways would be profitable in their own right, as businesses…

> Air travel and road travel isn't. Cargo shipping isn't.

I don't know about cargo shipping, but both air and road travel are subsidized (and I strongly suspect the same is the case for cargo shipping).

> It also just fails a quick reality check: if it were true then passenger railways would be profitable in their own right, as businesses would be happy to buy tickets for employees at their true costs.

What you're effectively arguing is that the only way to measure whether basic infrastructure has positive externalities is to ask whether it turns a profit. By that argument, all government spending on infrastructure is wasteful - a position that I think is obviously wrong.

> HSR is famously mostly empty in China. Go read accounts of anyone who has travelled on the newer lines.

I've traveled on Chinese HSR many times. It is extremely heavily used. Trains are usually packed. I've had to buy first-class tickets before, simply because the regular carriages were completely sold out (luckily, first class is not too expensive on Chinese HSR, and the upgrade is definitely worth it).

What are you basing your impression of HSR being empty on? Are you basing that on newspaper articles in Western press, on first-hand experience, on data, or on something else?

> Nobody stacks shelves with products that will never be sold.

You began by comparing China to the USSR, and talking about Yeltsin was shaken by the abundance of consumer products in the US. This comparison just completely fails when it comes to China. The China of today has a crazy abundance of consumer goods for sale. The malls are full of every type of shop with full shelves. There are packed markets with stalls selling everything. You can buy pretty much any consumer product you can imagine on your smartphone. There are endless numbers of couriers driving on electric scooters throughout every Chinese city, delivering people's online orders. Your image of what China is like is just completely out of date.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#627

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mike_hearn wrote: post #608
ElevenLathe wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air travel is also heavily subsidized, and road travel even more so. One of the real reasons for the interstate highway system (not the purported reason -- defense -- that got the bill through Congress) was to break the back of the rail monopolists (and, importantly, the rail unions). The American state chose to literally invent a whole new kind of socialized transport (marketed as a form of consumer individualism) t…

Air travel is taxed not subsidized. As far as I know there are no subsidies to the airline industry, unless you get into very ideological arguments by claiming the US military is a form of subsidy to anything that depends on fossil fuels. Double checking Wikipedia confirms this. After a huge page listing all the taxes, there's one unsourced paragraph claiming that "some" governments subsidise air travel with a "who?"…

In the US, fuel taxes and tolls combined only cover about 35% of the cost of building and maintaining roads. The rest of the cost is covered by the federal, state and local governments.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#628

Post by chasil »

mike_hearn wrote: post #461
chasil wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warren Buffet (as Berkshire Hathaway) bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) for a reason - it is very profitable. The merger of Canadian Pacific with Kansas City Southern is even larger, and is now a railway that spans North America from Vancouver to Veracruz. The freight railway system in North America is massive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNSF_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Pacific_Kansas_C…

Yes but we're not talking about freight. HSR is never used for that.

Amtrack mostly runs on freight lines. BNSF actually controls a Metra line in Chicago out of their headquarters.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#629

Post by inemesitaffia »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #428
inemesitaffia wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make batteries, regular cars and hybrids and the cost of labor is lower

Doesn't Tesla make batteries and 51% of its cars in China [1]? [1] https://insideevs.com/news/715427/tesla-ev-production-shangh...

Are they more efficient? Because you only substitute human labor for technology when wages are too high

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#630

Post by acdha »

codedokode wrote: post #376
Dalewyn wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Liberal governments also implement unpleasant decisions, for example: paying subsidies for solar panels, electric vehicles, banning good old cheap lightbulbs, banning cheap plastic bags, cheap cars etc.

Those are the subject of political agitprop but they’re not really unpopular: each of those will have large, usually majority, popular support if you ask people about them outside of political contexts. For example, “cheap” incandescent light bulbs cost far more over a given time period – even my Republican family members all switched because they’re not going to pay more just to spite environmentalists, especially since incandescent bulbs need to be replaced far more frequently.
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