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Cybertruck's Many Recalls

wired.com

331–340 of 463 posts

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#331
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recalls in consumers' minds are a frustration measurement more than a safety record. Most recalls are about very small/hypothetical risks, so the risk I want to avoid when I look at manufacturers recall history is the risk of having to fix my vehicle physically. Recalls are frustrating precisely because they're safety issues. Otherwise, customers could safely ignore recall notices and experience no frustration. The…

True, but tiny risk of catastrophic failure will be addressed by owners almost no matter how trivial. And it won't see as a relief by me that I managed to fix it before it spontaneously caught fire, I'll still see it as a frustrating failure by the manufacturer. Because I can both see it as a near-zero risk, and still do it with near 100% certainty. Especially if I don't know whether the window for fixing it easily/f…

> And it won't see as a relief by me that I managed to fix it before it spontaneously caught fire, I'll still see it as a frustrating failure by the manufacturer.

In this respect, there's no difference between OTA updates and dealership repairs.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own on this matter because styling is a matter of taste. I remember the shift from the '70s style boxy cars to the mid to late '80s rounded style cars. I wasn't a fan of that new style when it came out but it did eventually grow on me. For me the cybertruck looks like something out of a low budget'70s Sci-Fi movie. Who knows in 10 years maybe it will start to appeal to me but for right now it doesn't.

Nah, it's objectively not good-looking, and in a few years it'll be more obvious. There are probably more than 0 people who still genuinely think the Pontiac Aztek looks good, and they're wrong.

I’ll agree that there are cars that just look bad.

I love my Honda Element, but even I admit it’s not a great looking vehicle.. it’s old enough that it’s no longer sticks out, though easy to find in a parking lot as few cars are shaped that boxy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Element

62 page pdf about how the design of vehicle came together which is kind of interesting. (Function driving design)

http://www.ramblerdan.com/e/files/schumaker.pdf

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#333
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it isn’t a new meaning. Rather, those arguing that recall should now exclude OTA want to change a long established definition.

Google "definition of product recall" First 2 answers in asq.org and wikipedia Recall is the act of officially summoning someone or something back to its place of origin. A product recall is defined as a request to return, exchange, or replace a product after a manufacturer or consumer watch group discovers defects that could hinder performance, harm consumers, or produce legal issues for the producers. and A product…

> Google "definition of product recall"

I did, just to be safe, once again look up the legal definition of recall (both in regard to cars and other products) and continue to find that it was never written in a way that would make OTA not fit the term. It isn't limited to vehicles, but extends even to perishables for which a physical return directly to the manufacturer is not expected even using a more liberal interpretation of the word.

Here, this is what recall, in this context means:

> A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA.

> Manufacturers are required to fix the problem by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund, or in rare cases repurchasing the vehicle.

Source: https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls#recalls-7746

OTA falls under that. Can you perhaps find some source saying the contrary somewhere on the internet (just like one can find numerous sources proclaiming the earth to be flat)? Yes.

Does that change the legal definition as it has been in place for decades? No.

And if you want to fully ho by whatever some random person may believe recall to mean, then does that mean that product recalls for produce, milk, etc. do not exist according to you, because the item isn’t necessarily interfacing with the manufacturer again, but may just get disposed?

That was my point. If people feel this definition should be changed, more power to them, but arguing that OTA have as of yet not been covered by the definition is just dishonest.

I'd be partial to calling these recalls something akin to "Mitigating unreasonable safety issue", but I feel that for some reason, some people may feel compeled to argue that this wouldn't be fair to Tesla either, no matter how dangerous or forseeable a fault might be.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#334
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hyperbole. Most of the Tesla recalls that I can remember did not impact the safety of the vehicle.

Is there no difference between a software "recall" and a software update? I'm imagining (uneducated guess) that the software is updated more often than it is recalled, and so a "recall" is an update that addresses a safety issue.

Specifically speaking on software and tesla most/all recalls are for items that no longer comply with a government rule. No argument, the rules should be followed but I do believe there is a shade of gray as a number of them are imo tail events. They should be fixed but I would not classify them as the car cannot be used because safety is an issue.

"The Boombox function allows sounds to be played through an external speaker while the vehicle is in motion, which may obscure the Pedestrian Warning System (PWS) sounds. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 141, "Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles"

"A software error may cause a valve in the heat pump to open unintentionally and trap the refrigerant inside the evaporator, resulting in decreased defrosting performance. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 103, "Windshield Defrosting and Defogging Systems."

" A factory reset muted the Pedestrian Warning System (PWS) sounds. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 141, "Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles."

"An incorrect font size is displayed on the instrument panel for the Brake, Park, and Antilock Brake System (ABS) warning lights. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 105, "Hydraulic and Electric Brake Systems" and 135, "Light Vehicle Brake Systems."

Outside of these there are a handful of FSD recalls and a couple that are more critical, like rear-view cameras not working due to software. Stating again for the eventual naysayers, all of these absolutely should be fixed but I believe they are shades of gray in terms of how critical they are to safety.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#335
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe better, shouldn’t drive the car because of safety issues

This is hyperbole. Most of the Tesla recalls that I can remember did not impact the safety of the vehicle.

You are aware that in this very thread are examples of Tesla recalls that impacted the safety of the vehicle?

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#336
post #3

The article has about equal time about what Cybertruck owners dont care about, safety, reliability, etc. > Similar to other critics (earlier this year, a CNN reviewer called the pickup a “disturbing level of individual arrogance in hard, unforgiving steel”)—Drury believes Cybertruck buyers are people “who think ‘I don’t care if I kill people when I drive this thing down the street,’” he says. “There aren’t many of th…

The article is a smear piece. As it was expected coming from Wired.

I hate the idea that just being a hater is a bad thing and horrible and you're smearing the good, honest, hardworking Tesleratti.

Sorry, these are expensive, multiple-ton machines being sold at incredible profit, and we all deserve to get to take pot shots at it. We collectively pay for the privilege

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hyperbole. Most of the Tesla recalls that I can remember did not impact the safety of the vehicle.

You are aware that in this very thread are examples of Tesla recalls that impacted the safety of the vehicle?

You are aware I said most right? I am responding to the typical Tesla hyperbole. All issues that warrant a recall classification absolutely should be fixed but I would not go as far to say the vehicle should not be used due to safety. I think I can manage even though the font size in the instrument cluster is incorrect.

That's not to say there are not more serious issues like the rear-view camera that did not work for specific models/software version combos.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#338
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google "definition of product recall" First 2 answers in asq.org and wikipedia Recall is the act of officially summoning someone or something back to its place of origin. A product recall is defined as a request to return, exchange, or replace a product after a manufacturer or consumer watch group discovers defects that could hinder performance, harm consumers, or produce legal issues for the producers. and A product…

> Google "definition of product recall" I did, just to be safe, once again look up the legal definition of recall (both in regard to cars and other products) and continue to find that it was never written in a way that would make OTA not fit the term. It isn't limited to vehicles, but extends even to perishables for which a physical return directly to the manufacturer is not expected even using a more liberal interpr…

Yeah, the argument is about the legal definition being misleading and confusing and what should be changed, because of the bias and meaning of the word "recall". The fact that most google results will imply physical return of the product is evidence of popular definition and legal definition diverging. In addition the word inherently implies bring it back because of the "re". It doesn't imply "there's a safety issue that needs to be addressed".

> some people may feel compeled to argue that this wouldn't be fair to Tesla either, no matter how dangerous or forseeable a fault might be.

Also the point isn't about whether it's fair to Tesla or not. I don't care about Tesla here. It could be any manufacturer, point is that it makes it seem like it's a financial and logistical nightmare to come, but clicking on headline, it's just a software update.

Of course by now, I've personally seen this in headlines many times and grown indifferent, but it occurs to me still every time.

In my native language the term "recall" has even stronger implications of physical return, it means "call to bring it back". It sounds even more bizarre than in English for a software update.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#339
post #149

Why there is always so much fuss about labels? Across so many different domains. Cars needed OTA update to be driven safely. Why is it important whether we call it a recall or not? I am not trying to make a point here. Clearly some people care about that. I'm legitimately curious why.

I'm not worried about the label, but I am worried about the implication - since software made the jump from physical to digital/OTA distribution, there's been a decline in software release quality because "we'll patch it later".

The historical financial punishments to writing buggy software are gone, and now it's infecting cars I'm concerned that safety standards will begin to slip and potentially injure someone.

Side note: I know a common response to buggy software is the market won't pay because it takes longer to develop etc. But writing robust software is a hard skill,and it you haven't seen an industry write robust software for a long time, why should you trust they still can?

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#340

Why are people spending so much money for something so hideous and so defective? Is this a weird fashion thing? My old 2017 Kia Soul costs about 5x less and has had 0 defects.

Not only do they pay, they come here and rabidly defend all its flaws in the face of so much evidence to the contrary!

"Oh the recalls are just software updates, so it's fine there were so many safety issues with my car, they fix them quickly and I don't even buy half the regulations are important anyways"

"Oh it's fine if the trunk cuts your finger off, who puts their finger in a trunk anyways?"

And on and on

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