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Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

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Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#171

Post by Klonoar »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

> I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them.

I honestly blame Apple for pushing FaceID, as it completely normalized facial recognition on a mass scale. Nobody thinks about this at all anymore.

(No, it's not entirely Apple's fault, but I do think this point warrants more notice/discussion)

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#172

Post by snakeyjake »

numeri wrote: post #170
snakeyjake wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking you present ID to pass through security. The facial recognition is based on the biometric data collected when you got your ID, the ID you presented to pass through security. The ID with your name, address, date of birth, and uniquely identifying number on it. The ID which is associated with your boarding pass. The ID they scan (or they scan the boarding pass which is associated with your ID) prior…

The point of this program isn't that it makes things substantially quicker at the checkpoint – it is a minor speed-up at best. The goal is to normalize the collection of biometric data, to shift the Overton window of surveillance.

The collection of biometric data is already normalized.

It has been normalized since the 1920s, when the FBI's central fingerprint repository was created.

And the end goal isn't the system that currently exists. It is a system in which the movement of passengers isn't halted. Someone watched 1990's Total Recall and said "we need a security checkpoint like that".

Also, the "Overton window" is a libertarian bullshit response to the natural shifts that occur in society, usually trotted out whenever libertarians get pissed off that "muh freedom" no longer excuses their bigotry and they can't make "because their knee-grows" jokes anymore.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#173

Post by redserk »

thisisnotauser wrote: post #109
mu53 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facial recognition systems like this are used everywhere in china. Its common for gates in apartment buildings. Its just how things work there. It feel more malicious to pretend its not happening

There's a famous saying about Mussolini making the trains run on time. The joke was that anyone who complained about the trains running late, which was an endemic issue emblematic of the financial failures of fascism (his government system), was killed. But if you didn't complain about the trains, maybe because you didn't take them, you didn't get killed. It was fine. Maybe things are actually kinda bad, but you're j…

No, in the US we just stick fingers in our ears while we let the private sector do it while screaming “la-la-la” and closing our eyes.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#174

Post by spacemanspiff01 »

smolder wrote: post #167
refurb wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the intent of the structure of the US government. High degree of separation of powers (unlike most other democracies, the executive is separate from the legislative and there are two independent legislative bodies). High level of agreement across multiple bodies before a law can be passed (House, Senate and President). I thought Scalia's explanation was a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg…

That's the intent, but evidently, (and sadly,) it doesn't work how it should. There's too much influence from moneyed interests and just too much bad faith participation and gaming of the various processes. It was bad when I was born and it's gotten ever more corrupt and dysfunctional since.

I think that the biggest issue is that congress is underfunded and has ceded too much control to the executive.

By that I mean that the modern world is incredibly complex, yet in the house, each house member only gets 1.25 million per year for staff. Yet despite that they are supposed to create and manage the rules and regulations for a 30 trillion dollar economy.

It's impossible, even if you have good faith of all actors. This leads to lobbying groups providing texts for laws, because they have the resources to provide people to write and review them.

It also leads to shifting the bureaucracy of the regulations to the executive branch, because that is where there is the money to hire staff/expertise/ and regulate something as large and complicated.

My pet peeve is that each congressional rep should be receiving ~25 million for staff, then use that to build up in house expertise, vs having everything under the executive.

Congress has ceded too much power.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#175

Post by swat535 »

netsharc wrote: post #12

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

Same thing when entering Japan, they even have machines where you can do it yourself

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#176

Post by swat535 »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #105
netsharc wrote: post #12

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

Pictures are also taken on entry in Canada, at least at Vancouver airport [1]. And obviously getting the visa requires submitting your fingerprints. [1] https://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/navigate-yvr/customs-and-im...

It's Canada wide, we have these in Montreal as well

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#177

Post by swat535 »

kareemm wrote: post #67
bananapub wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans can opt out.

Nope - Canadian here, opted out in Austin.

Unless you are a Canadian born in an undesirable country: Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, .. etc. It doesn't matter if you are citizen and have a passport, you will always be racially profiled when crossing the US unfortunately and I bet the experience will be much worse under the new Administration.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#178

Post by iszomer »

DanHulton wrote: post #147
X-Istence wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When entering the United States they also take fingerprints and a picture of your face.

Fingerprints? I haven't ever had that happen. Perhaps only certain countries?

I've seen it while returning from a trip to Taiwan recently, via JFK. They took fingerprints from non-US passport holders at Customs, I think; they didn't take mine.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#179

Post by Redoubts »

MarkMarine wrote: post #4

For this to work they must have already done facial recognition on everyone’s ID photos, so I fail to see what opting out even does for me from a privacy perspective. Seems like shutting the barn door after the horse is already out.

I wonder how widely this is shared. I was shocked getting in to a Singaporean Airlines flight, and I didn’t even have to present my boarding pass. Just scanned my face at the gate and told me where I was sitting. (This wasn’t even terminal security)

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#180

Post by grepfru_it »

snakeyjake wrote: post #172
numeri wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of this program isn't that it makes things substantially quicker at the checkpoint – it is a minor speed-up at best. The goal is to normalize the collection of biometric data, to shift the Overton window of surveillance.

The collection of biometric data is already normalized. It has been normalized since the 1920s, when the FBI's central fingerprint repository was created. And the end goal isn't the system that currently exists. It is a system in which the movement of passengers isn't halted. Someone watched 1990's Total Recall and said "we need a security checkpoint like that". Also, the "Overton window" is a libertarian bullshit re…

So you are saying that we should just accept that we have lost our privacy rather than to continue advocating for it?
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