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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#881

Post by EdSchouten »

com wrote: post #418
ssijak wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands said that they would arrest anybody accused. That would be peculiar to see, what would actually happen if anybody of the accused were to travel there.

The Dutch have a very lackadaisical attitude to law, and at the very same time a very principled cut-off-my-nose-to-spite-my-face rule of law mentality. If I were a senior Israeli or Hamas leader I’d avoid the place for a couple of decades in case of sealed charges.

> The Dutch have a very lackadaisical attitude to law

What do you mean by this specifically?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#883

Post by aguaviva »

YZF wrote: post #870
nabla9 wrote: post #12

(before you jump into discussion, remember that this only about these two individuals) ICC and the prosecutor are on very solid ground here. The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The panel included people like Theodor Meron (former Legal adviser for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Helene Kennedy, Adrian Fulford. Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant provided plenty of ev…

[flagged]

The war is against Hamas not against Palestinians

Of course it's not against the Palestinians, per se.

It's a war against their continued presence on portions of Greater Israel that his party and his people would like to further colonize.

There's also the current operation involving his former "asset" and strategic partner, Hamas. With whom it seems he's had a falling out of sorts, and as a result, his people got massacred. But that's just a sideshow against the backdrop of this far broader, deeper, decades-long conflict.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#884

Post by mikae1 »

nabla9 wrote: post #12

(before you jump into discussion, remember that this only about these two individuals) ICC and the prosecutor are on very solid ground here. The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The panel included people like Theodor Meron (former Legal adviser for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Helene Kennedy, Adrian Fulford. Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant provided plenty of ev…

> Did they really think that when they talk Hebrew to their audience, rest of the world does not hear them. Case like this would be harder to prosecute without evidence of intent.

What are you talking about here? Link?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#885

Post by sudosysgen »

YZF wrote: post #872
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

[flagged]

The standard isn't harm, it's war crimes. There is clear evidence that Israel deliberately withheld food and medicine from civilians in a calculated manner, which is a war crime that no one is alleging in the fight against ISIS.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#886

Post by para_parolu »

netsharc wrote: post #554
xenospn wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The whole "The Muslims/Muslim countries won't do X, and therefore why should we?" argument is funny and depressing to me. Why won't they do X? Because maybe in your mind you think they're savages/less civilized. Less, that is, compared to you/your community's (in whatever scale: nation, race, hemisphere). But if you're saying "If they don't do X, we can behave the same", isn't that a call for you/your community to ab…

I think the whole civilized/uncivilized spectrum is just “who has bigger gun” contest.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#887

Post by YZF »

geysersam wrote: post #880
YZF wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not serious to dismiss the allegations by just saying > If Israel had intended to not supply any food or water to the Palestinians [...] the bottom line is they did not do so. because several heavyweight international humanitarian organizations say that they did. Even the US government implies this when they tell Israel to open border crossings or get cut off from military aid.

It's not serious to suggest that Israel did not supply any food or water to the Palestinians when in fact it supplied plenty. Why didn't Egypt supply food and water to the Palestinians? (Before Israel took the border corridor).

What other war can you provide me as an example where a the opposing side provided supplies to its enemy? Does Russia supply Ukraine with food and water? Does Ukraine supply Russia? Did the allies supply the citizens of the Islamic State with food and water? Yes- The Gazans depended on Israel in many ways before they started this war, most of them by their own choice. Did the Germans deliver food and water to the UK during WW-II? Do the Turkish give the Kurds food and water as they bomb them? If the government of Gaza, Hamas, has stocks of food and water, and it does not disburse those to the population, and even steals aid from the population, why is this Israel's problem?

Those organizations you're referring to are anti-Israeli and their statements are political.

The US, who has closer knowledge of what's going on on the ground, says Israel has not committed war crimes.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#888

Post by sureIy »

grvbck wrote: post #807
3vidence wrote: post #782

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

Yup, there is a legal concept called excessive self-defense.

It's completely reasonable to exterminate an entire ants colony if 5 ants bite you, or at least that's their logic here, including the "ants" part. But of course we know the "self-defense" part is just a cover for the underlying desire to destroy the colony to build a nice villa.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#889

Post by YZF »

sudosysgen wrote: post #885
YZF wrote: post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The standard isn't harm, it's war crimes. There is clear evidence that Israel deliberately withheld food and medicine from civilians in a calculated manner, which is a war crime that no one is alleging in the fight against ISIS.

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#890

Post by da-x »

Animats wrote: post #704
edanm wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? Absolutely this matters. This effectively limits where Netanyahu and Gallant can travel to. That's a big deal for a head of state. It sends a signal to all of Europe to be wary of doing business with Israel, which is a big deal. We also don't kno…

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

"instead" ?!

There was already a cold war with Iran before Oct 7, and many warned it could pop any moment. It could be said to the detriment of Netanyahu that he ignored that and didn't want this on his watch. Iran was priming and planning for a moment where a joint Hezbollah-Hamas ground invasion would have put the Israeli military to a stress beyond its means, and with many thousands casualties on the first day. It would have happened sooner or later if it wasn't for the Hamas independent action.

Also, on Oct 2023 he and other officials said it is going to be a long battle from the beginning. He never once promised this to be short. And also, a clear victory from a long war gets him more electorates, so he aligns his own victory with Israel's.

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