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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#811

Post by klipt »

edanm wrote: post #721
Animats wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

> At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. I wish and hope that's true. But I think some of your analysis is really incorrect, unfortunately. > He's been voted out of office before. Yes, he was out of power for about a year of the last 15 or so years, and got back into power. > He's in trouble politically. True, and I hope it stays that way. However the elections are still two years away, there doesn't seem to b…

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#813

Post by maroonblazer »

runarberg wrote: post #781
dotancohen wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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The charges in question are that of targeting hospitals and hindering aid from reaching Gaza. Netanyahu and Gallant are being charged with the policy of targeting hospitals and hindering aid. The videos we have of people dying are only related to the crime if they show how hospitals or aid convoys were targeted. Of which we have plenty. For example the flour massacre is only one of many instances of aid being targete…

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#814

Post by computerfriend »

barney54 wrote: post #765
Animats wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

It will not happen to that next administration would turn over Netanyahu to the ICC. Even if they wanted to, he would seek asylum in the U.S. Embassy and he would certainly be granted asylum.

The US never grants asylum to embassy walk-ins.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#815

Post by klipt »

newspaper1 wrote: post #302
burkaman wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but drawing any conclusions from random people on Twitter seems like a mistake. They might not be human, they might not be Israeli, and they might not be representative of Israel's 9 million people. I wouldn't want anybody to judge me based on how English-speaking Twitter accounts behave.

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#816

Post by shiroiushi »

ben_w wrote: post #707
tzs wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they just wanted to hop on a regular commercial flight to the US that might be a problem, but I'd expect they would fly on military aircraft. Instead of taking the most direct route which would fly over Europe they could stay over the Mediterranean until they reach the Atlantic and then head straight to the US. That adds about 500 miles or so to the trip which probably isn't a big deal on a trip that long.

Now I'm wondering if airspace spreads out horizontally from the coast the same way that shipping rights do. I'd assume so, but a quick skim-read didn't tell me either way. If it does, then they'd pick between going through Spanish or Moroccan airspace, because the straights of Gibraltar are narrow enough you can see Africa from Gibraltar .

They should build a dam across the strait.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#817

Post by babkayaga »

joejohnson wrote: post #759
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

The rules-based order was always a fiction; international law is a tool used solely against America’s enemies. This arrest warrant could be executed in a day if the US would stop supporting this genocide, but that won’t happen. They will sooner invite Netanyahu back to the UN to order more air strikes on refugees.

the warrant is not for genocide, you did not even read it, did you?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#818

Post by csomar »

rixed wrote: post #692

As a European, I find the reactions from the US politicians as related in this Al-Jazeera article quite choking : https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/21/how-us-politicians... But maybe biased though. Anyone would have a link to some more nuanced statements with officials who do not sounds just like thugs?

The ICC is not under the US control and thus the US sees it as a potentially dangerous organization and the fact that it is in Europe (an influential entity) doesn't make things any better. The US turned a blind eye on the ICC because it used to prosecute its enemies. Now that it's touching its agenda, it makes sense that they do not like it.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#819

Post by megous »

jmward01 wrote: post #755

Reading the comments in this thread and reflecting on history a bit, the thought that comes to mind is that this is less a trial for the defendants and more a trial of the ICC and more broadly international institutions and their true independence, effectiveness and ultimately, relevance.

Reflecting on the history a bit...

If you think that trying some head of a small thuggish state, founded by its unilateral declaration of sovereignty over someone else's land, while already cleansing it of unruly natives, and terrorizing British officials for years both in Palestine and internationally (like with assassination campaigns and embassy bombings), that dug its own hole over decades into ethno-supremacy based and messianically driven conflict with Palestinians, will in any way degrade legitimacy of a court and treaty joined by 125 sovereign states (with almost all "western" ones included), then you're deluding yourself.

Especially when he's being explicitly tried for his role in ensuring that children have to suffer amputations and women get c-sections without anesthesia (among other things), which has nothing to do with defense of Israel.

If anything ICC standing rose a bit in many people's eyes today, slightly above the "court for african warmongers only", where it was previously.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#820

Post by forgotoldacc »

Animats wrote: post #704
edanm wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? Absolutely this matters. This effectively limits where Netanyahu and Gallant can travel to. That's a big deal for a head of state. It sends a signal to all of Europe to be wary of doing business with Israel, which is a big deal. We also don't kno…

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

One thing I've learned these past 20 years: when an awful political leader seems to obviously be undergoing a downfall and on their way out of power, you can be sure they'll be there 20 years later. And they'll outlive all of us too, even if they're already geriatric.
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