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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And Israel has proven it doesn't either. Not sure what the point is here?

You asked, referring to Palestine's admission to the ICC:

> good for them; is there some reason they shouldn't have?

Their point is that the ICC should only be admitting those who intend to abide by the rules that ICC exists to enforce. Since it was Palestine's admission you asked about their answer referred to Palestine leaders' intentions with regard to those rules.

That Israel also doesn't abide by those rules is not relevant to the question you asked. It would be relevant if the question was whether or not Israel should be admitted to the ICC (and Palestinian lack of abiding by those rules would be irrelevant to that question).

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#802

For context, this is only possible because the state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member and thus give the ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on Palestinian territory, whether by Israel or by Palestinian factions. The USA is still mad at them for doing it. The full account is worth reading, it includes considerations by the various resistance factions that they’d also be subje…

> state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member good for them; is there some reason they shouldn't have?

Now do Tibet.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#804

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

How does that lineup with Ukraine. Would Zelensky and Putin and everyone who played a role including Biden get an arrest warrant?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#807

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

Yup, there is a legal concept called excessive self-defense.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#808
post #804

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

How does that lineup with Ukraine. Would Zelensky and Putin and everyone who played a role including Biden get an arrest warrant?

The idea of moral wars is a myth manufactured by the war propaganda machine.

I wouldn't object to all three of them being tried. I think Zelensky probably has the strongest defense, but I'm not fully informed on the conflict.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#809
post #808
post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that lineup with Ukraine. Would Zelensky and Putin and everyone who played a role including Biden get an arrest warrant?

The idea of moral wars is a myth manufactured by the war propaganda machine. I wouldn't object to all three of them being tried. I think Zelensky probably has the strongest defense, but I'm not fully informed on the conflict.

So, just to be clear, you think any country that's invaded should just immediately surrender?

So if I invade the US tomorrow with a sharpened stick, they have to hand their country over because any kind of defence is immoral?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. My understanding is that's because it's usually difficult to show intent . However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. My biggest concern over this is what the US and/or Mossad will do...

Usually when people say that they are talking about genocide. War crimes and crimes against humanity may have some intent requirements but they don't have the double intent that genocide has, which is the part that is super difficult to prove. To over simplify (also ianal) with genocide you basically have to prove that the only possible rationale for the action was to try and destroy the protected group and that ther…

That higher standard sounds similar to "Double reasonableness" from British tax law.

"Double reasonableness" is used to delete tax advantages for certain things which you say were correctly exempt from taxation or attracted significant tax advantages but the government alleges you were in fact just generally avoiding paying tax and whatever you were doing doesn't count. It's not a crime to have mistakenly believed you didn't owe tax, but, if a court finds against you, you would now owe the back tax, plus potentially penalties.

The "double" comes from a requirement that not only can the reasonable person (say, a juror) not think of any way that what you're doing isn't just avoiding tax, but they can't even imagine any other reasonable person who thinks what you were doing made sense for another reason beside avoiding taxes either.

The idea is this only triggers for people who are very obviously dodging tax, so that their scheme sounds completely ludicrous unless it is explained that they hoped to avoid taxation, rather than just being a slightly eccentric thing to do which happened to have tax benefits when they did it.

"I buy and sell used cars" makes you a used car dealer. No reason you shouldn't take advantage of used car tax treatments which are a significant benefit.

"I let somebody else do all the buying and selling" OK, I guess you just own the business? Nothing wrong with that, small business, entrepreneurship, excellent.

"I don't own the business or anything, I just get the advantageous tax treatment". Huh, well it's very good of the people actually doing the transactions to let you benefit while they go without, very generous indeed, but at least you're ensuring a healthy market in used cars.

"Oh, there's just one car. That car is just bought and sold over and over again to make up the amount of money I requested". See, now that's ludicrous, why would anybody believe you had some reason to do this except to avoid paying taxes?

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