ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
691–700 of 1001 posts
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#692But maybe biased though. Anyone would have a link to some more nuanced statements with officials who do not sounds just like thugs?
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#693Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Israel was massively radicalized by October 7th. Prior to October 7th, a lot of Israelis believed that if Palestinians had a better economy and could afford a comfortable life, peace would be possible. October 7th was not just a surprise to many Israelis, but also the atrocities were so horrible that it radically changed how Israelis view the situation. This is hard to grasp, but a lot of people don't really understa…
In my experience, most of what mainstream media claimed initially around atrocities was proven to be categorically false - up to and including the president of the USA going on live TV and lying about having seen evidence of baby killing, with staffers having to sheepishly and quietly release a "that didn't happen" statement later.
Of course these retractions happened later, and Israel's explicit and planned messaging of atrocities, inhuman animal behavior, etc had its desired effect of riling people up to support a genocidal assault after a single successful counterattack from an impoverished people at war for generations.
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#694Earlier quoted context omitted.
"It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead." Correct, and that's what happened only about a decade after WWI—the War to End All Wars and look what happened. I'm fearful history might repeat itself. It has a bad habit of doing so and often with unexpected twists.
Justice has to be declared as an essential principle of human organisation. If the 1984 vision of a boot stamping on a human face forever is going to work out to be true, then so be it. The ICJ is at least holding out against that future. What will you (as a human) choose to do? These days and years are going to be definitional I think.
The relevance of the ICC etc. is rooted in how much people actually do, not just say.
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#695Netanyahu I'm not surprised, but Gallant? EDIT: Asking genuinely on Gallant all I know is he was minister of defence and had a felling out with Netanyahu.
Gallant's position is that there are no innocent people in Gaza and that they should be starved to death. He's said this many times: https://x.com/KhalilJeries/status/1853905224320372923
This clip is IIRC from about 3 days after Hamas invaded Israel and massacred civilians. He announced an utterly immoral siege policy, but abandoned it almost immediately.
And while you can certainly cherry-pick some awful statements from Gallant, he's also made many statements that make it clear that Israel is not targeting civilians.
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#696Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Israel was massively radicalized by October 7th. Prior to October 7th, a lot of Israelis believed that if Palestinians had a better economy and could afford a comfortable life, peace would be possible. October 7th was not just a surprise to many Israelis, but also the atrocities were so horrible that it radically changed how Israelis view the situation. This is hard to grasp, but a lot of people don't really understa…
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#697Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, because they want to operate outside the rule of international law.
Imagine the US having to face consequences for Iraq. One of the most fucked up collection of war crimes and violations of laws of war in the 21st century. The average American now thinks "we shouldn't have gone into Iraq" but has no idea the reputation the US has in the rest of the world because of this act
Your statement seems to imply that the Iraq War was unusually bad in terms of war crimes. If so, you should be able to give several examples of 21st century conflicts which you're confident had fewer war crimes committed per capita. Can you do so?
The way I see it, there are two rough hypotheses here:
Hypothesis 1: The US is an unusually evil country which has a harmful effect on world affairs. Its actions in Iraq exemplify this. The recent trend towards US isolationism is good, since isolationism will diminish its pernicious effects on world affairs.
Hypothesis 2: War crimes and violations of the laws of war are ubiquitous in conflict. The international treaties prohibiting them were well-intentioned but largely fruitless. The psychology of war drives soldiers to commit war crimes, and/or the incentives to commit war crimes are too strong. The US has a free press, and has systems in place to prosecute service members who commit war crimes, so you hear more about war crimes committed by the US than by other countries. But the per capita rate of the US committing war crimes may actually be lower than average.
What evidence is available that lets us differentiate between these hypotheses?
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#698This does not belong on hacker news
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#699Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Israel was massively radicalized by October 7th. Prior to October 7th, a lot of Israelis believed that if Palestinians had a better economy and could afford a comfortable life, peace would be possible. October 7th was not just a surprise to many Israelis, but also the atrocities were so horrible that it radically changed how Israelis view the situation. This is hard to grasp, but a lot of people don't really understa…
That said, I do often read comments and news articles claiming that Netanyahu's government is unpopular within Israel, and that he only maintains his position by the support of the… well, there's not a polite way to describe the attitudes of the settlers who take land that isn't in Israel and then demand Israel defend them, nor those who demand violence while claiming their religious beliefs prohibit serving in the armed forces even though everyone else has conscription.
Not confident of that popularity though, as Googling gets me an extraordinarily broad range of popularity scores.
That said:
> But ultimately, October 7th killed any chance for peace between Israel and the Palestinians, for a long long time.
Did any chance of a peace live before?
The Israeli PM who signed the Oslo Accords, Yitzhak Rabin, was shot by a far-right-wing Israeli extremist for signing them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
A large portion of the Palestinian population also opposed it.
Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials
#700[flagged]