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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#501

Post by loceng »

bluGill wrote: post #112
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #82

>In his first response to the ICC issuing a warrant for his arrest on allegations of war crimes, Benjamin Netanyahu’s office has described the ruling as “absurd and false lies” and said the decision is “antisemitic.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/nov/21/internati... If Netanyahu and Gallant really think they are innocent, and the allegations are absurd and false, they should cooperate with the ICC. Have…

You are assuming the court isn't a political thing that is trying to get him regardless of evidence. The court is at least partially political, and Netanyahu will tell you this is entirely political and he wouldn't get a fair trail.

Can't you place that exact same argument on the side of the Palestinians, and add more weight to their claim - where the international community so far has allowed this, due to reason (whether money involved in politicians toeing a line or not), and so the courts decisions and political bias are more likely to favour Netanyahu over the Palestinians?

There never seems to be much critical thinking on the quick one-liners that on the surface appear to often be one-liner propaganda talking points used for deflection, to give an easy memorable line for an otherwise ideological mob to learn-train them with to then parrot.

(edited tran->train)

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#502

Post by [deleted] »

newspaper1 wrote: post #225
StefanBatory wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know about this before, thanks :| I thought he was much more of a moderate in Netanyahu cabinet.

There's a large attempt to pin all of this on Netanyahu and his closest cabinet but what he's saying is pretty much supported by nearly all of Israeli society down to individual citizens. I encourage everyone to find people who live in Israel on X and translate their tweets so they can see for themselves.

[deleted]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#503

Post by ceejayoz »

TeaBrain wrote: post #471
tdeck wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The PA is controlled by a party that staged a coup when Hamas won an election in Gaza and has been able to prevent elections since 2006.

This doesn't serve as evidence that the PA would be willing to arrest Hamas members.

Fatah and Hamas have engaged in open combat regularly.

Willingness isn't really in question. Ability to do so is, though.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#504

Post by aguaviva »

jcranmer wrote: post #209
DasIch wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice these warrants mean that they cannot travel to any country that does recognize the ICC without being arrested, which means they almost certainly won't.

Just like how Putin couldn't travel to, say, South Africa, after a warrant was issued for his arrest. Oh wait, South Africa declined to enforce the ICC arrest warrant in that case. I don't see this meaningfully constraining Netanyahu's foreign travel options.

Oh wait, South Africa is just one country.

In a great many other countries, including nearly all Western countries, the warrant is still in effect.

And even in the South African case: the government's decision was considered quite tenuous, which is why Putin cancelled his visit, in was was considered to be a major diplomatic setback at the time. So at the end of the day -- the warrant still had significant effect, and fulfilled its purpose.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#505

Post by ComputerGuru »

TeaBrain wrote: post #471
tdeck wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The PA is controlled by a party that staged a coup when Hamas won an election in Gaza and has been able to prevent elections since 2006.

This doesn't serve as evidence that the PA would be willing to arrest Hamas members.

The PA routinely arrests Hamas members. On the daily. Locks them up or hands them over to Israel to lock them up for years. Isn't that already evidence?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#506

Post by gspencley »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #82

>In his first response to the ICC issuing a warrant for his arrest on allegations of war crimes, Benjamin Netanyahu’s office has described the ruling as “absurd and false lies” and said the decision is “antisemitic.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/nov/21/internati... If Netanyahu and Gallant really think they are innocent, and the allegations are absurd and false, they should cooperate with the ICC. Have…

> If Netanyahu and Gallant really think they are innocent, and the allegations are absurd and false, they should cooperate with the ICC. Have your day in court and show how absurd the accusations are.

I don't know if I agree with this.

If the ICC is an honest organization that stands for individual rights, liberty and justice then sure.

If, on the other hand, the ICC is a corrupt organization that invites the worst of the worst in terms of rights-violating countries and dictatorial regimes to the table, then no way. In any compromise between right and wrong, good and evil, the wrong has everything to gain and the good has everything to lose.

In other words, I don't have all of the facts when it comes to the ICC and its history. I know that it is separate from the UN, but I don't know very much about it. Therefore I don't know which alternative I ultimately land on.

But in general and in principle, when it comes to those that are objectively and morally wrong, there is every reason to not grant them legitimacy through recognition or participation.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#507

Post by ars »

dang wrote: post #36
28304283409234 wrote: post #24

How is this 'flagged'?

Users flagged it, as is common for the most divisive topics. I've turned the flags off now, in keeping with HN's standard practices: some (but only some) stories with political overlap are allowed, and in the case of a Major Ongoing Topic (MOT) we prefer the stories that contain Significant New Information (SNI). [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange…

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#508

Post by ComputerGuru »

jowea wrote: post #440
ComputerGuru wrote: post #33

Wow, this took a long time to come after the application for the warrants. 185 days compared to 23 days for Putin's arrest warrant — but then again, one was against the wishes of the USA and the west while the other was at their behest.

My guess is that it's simply a matter of how difficult it is to prove the issue. The Putin case was very simply because there is an official state program to do things that are considered genocide. Israel is at least pretending they are letting aid in.

But that's what the court itself is for! You get plausibly charged with a crime, you go to court, and the case is determined one way or the other.

What happened in this case is that Israel beseeched its allies to lobby the court not to look into what was happening [0]. And the UK demanded hearings to impede the ICC warrants from being issued (purely politically, as this was done under Sunak and then Starmer/Lammy dropped the objection, but the delays were already underway).

[0]: https://www.axios.com/2021/02/07/israel-icc-political-pressu...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#509

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

TrueDuality wrote: post #206
bluGill wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming the court isn't a political thing that is trying to get him regardless of evidence. The court is at least partially political, and Netanyahu will tell you this is entirely political and he wouldn't get a fair trail.

Courts are political entities but this is one that Israel chose to accept and recognize the authority of. It has a history of being very transparent in its decisions and is widely recognized as being neutral and fair in their decision making process. Of course the person charged and found guilty of a crime will argue against the court. Disagreement, even if valid, doesn't change the recognized authority of this court…

> Israel chose to accept and recognize the authority of

Israel never ratified the Rome statute. The US withdrew but Israel never ratified it in the first place.

> It has a history of being very transparent in its decisions and is widely recognized as being neutral and fair in their decision making process

There is a long section on criticism against the ICC, not just from Israel, that suggests otherwise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#510

Post by megous »

dankai wrote: post #45

"The Chamber therefore found reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant bear criminal responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare." Whats perhaps interesting to note is that this charge was made for "just" 41 [1] confirmed starvation deaths among a population of 2,141,643 people [2]. Of course every death caused by intentional starvation is a severe crime and must be puni…

Starvation vs starvation to death are different things.

War crime of starvation was directed against 2.3 million people without distinction, incl. ~1 million children. I'd say that's bad enough.

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