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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#731

Post by quantified »

vel0city wrote: post #672
yftsui wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Develop film takes time, same as why somebody wait for hours and hours just to get an EV charged? The “last generation” can “recharge” to 450miles in 3 minutes at a gas station then move on.

> same as why somebody wait for hours and hours just to get an EV charged? I spend hours a year more waiting for gas pumps for my ICE than I spend waiting on my EV to charge. And I put way more miles on my EV than my ICE.

Are you lucky enough to own your own house, do you put up with a corporate landlord/big condo, or are you in street parking?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#732

Post by quantified »

llm_trw wrote: post #613
JeremyNT wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think part of it is how darned long cars last now. I have an 18 year old car that I purchased used long ago and currently has no mechanical issues. I've had a few repairs but nothing terribly expensive. I have no interest in replacing it. When you think about it, people who are frugal will buy practical and cost effective cars and drive them for a decade or more (that is, if they buy a car at all!). That means t…

The difference is that new cars are safe cars. Old cars are death traps. If you value your life you will be buying the new shiny every 5 years or less.

That's incredibly wrong. 10-year old cars are quite safe.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#733

Post by quantified »

digitallis42 wrote: post #658
evgen wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one of those 'was it really that long ago? I am getting old' moments to actually look this up, but the last major safety features which moved the needle on keeping you alive in a car were the mandates for side-impact protection and anti-lock braking systems. Both are more than ten years old. I think you would be hard-pressed to name a single innovation from the past five years which has increased your lifespan…

Adaptive cruise was still higher end at that time. Certainly not ubiquitous at the mid tier. Heck, it's barely ubiquitous now. Both adaptive cruise and automatic emergency braking are game changer features for safety on the highway.

Nah, it's the same game.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#734

Post by secabeen »

epistasis wrote: post #602
secabeen wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peak load without solar is not midday. Here's an NYT article from 1975 about introduction of Time of Use billing describing peak rates being in the morning and evening: > Mrs. Wells changed her housework habits because for part of the year it costs her more than six times as much to use electricity from 8 A.M. to 11 A.M. and 5 P.M. to 9 P.M. as it costs during the rest of the day. https://www.nytimes.com/1975/06/29/a…

You're making a blanket statement about peak time which is incorrect. Historically in Califorinia, peak load has been in the afternoon, which I count as midday. At least, it's when solar panels are still pumping out a ton of power: https://www.caiso.com/Documents/CaliforniaISOPeakLoadHistory... You're posting a random day in winter in California, where overall consumption is low even at its highest, because there's v…

> You're posting a random day in winter in California, where overall consumption is low even at its highest, because there's very little demand for cooling.

You're just seeing the data for today. You can select any day you want.

Let's look at a really generous day for you, the peak annual usage from 2020: 47,121 MW on August 18 @ 15:57. On this day, the peak was indeed at 15:57. However, the demand remains high for hours past that. Demand is above 99% of peak until 5:30pm and above 90% of peak until almost 9pm. Solar production is down to under 1000MW by 6:45pm. Thus we have over 2 hours of near-peak demand when solar is not helping at all. No amount of additional solar (without batteries) will ever cover that 6:45-9pm period of high (if not peak, but it's close) demand.

https://www.caiso.com/todays-outlook

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#735

Post by vel0city »

HWR_14 wrote: post #717
vel0city wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize ICE vehicles don't have tires. News to me. There is a slight increase in tire particulates, sure. A small increase. There's also a lot less brake particulates. And get this: there's no tailpipe emissions either.

A slight increase? Particulates increase with the 4th power of weight, and EVs way a significant amount more.

Now I think I know where you're pulling that fourth power from. You're probably thinking of road wear which does scale like that. But that's road wear, not tire wear, and doesn't result in the same airborne particulate issue here.

And even then, it's small potatoes compared to actual big trucks and busses rolling on the roads.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#736

Post by vel0city »

quantified wrote: post #731
vel0city wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> same as why somebody wait for hours and hours just to get an EV charged? I spend hours a year more waiting for gas pumps for my ICE than I spend waiting on my EV to charge. And I put way more miles on my EV than my ICE.

Are you lucky enough to own your own house, do you put up with a corporate landlord/big condo, or are you in street parking?

I live in a single family residence like the majority of households in the US.

My point still stands. Despite driving more miles on my EV my ICE wastes my time on pumping gas especially before all the time I waste with routine maintenance. I am far from alone.

Why would anyone waste their time going to gas stations all the time and wait for oil changes and have to deal with all that maintenance of things like timing belts and what not?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#737

Post by chii »

mattmaroon wrote: post #712
bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

A $100k pickup isn't a regular pickup, anymore than an $80k sedan is a regular sedan. It's gotta be more expensive than 95% of the pickups on the road. If it gets 11 mpg it must have a really beefy engine and be geared for towing. If it uses premium fuel, it's one of the badged models likely. One thing that's odd about the pickup market is it isn't segmented into low tier/mid tier/luxury tier the way other vehicles a…

how is it efficient when there's regulation that prevents manufacturers from directly selling, and have to go through dealers?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#738

Post by vel0city »

marxisttemp wrote: post #727
two_handfuls wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EV charges while you sleep. You always start your journey with a full tank. If you can't do that then, yes, an EV is less convenient than a gas car that is true.

Home ownership is a distant dream for most Americans, and the sort of rentals that have parking AND EV charging tend to be extremely pricy luxury new-builds. Gas is unfortunately going to be around for a long, long time for normal working-class Americans.

Home ownership rate today is pretty similar to what it's been for decades.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#739

Post by hattmall »

bluGill wrote: post #447
bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

Some Americans. The average car in the US is 12 years old. I just checked my local craigslist, most cars of that age are under 10k, and almost none are more than 20k. Since that is average we can assume cars of that age will run (with maintenance) for another decade and so shouldn't be very expensive. Of course at that age almost nothing is electric.

An older "nice" car is also a lot nicer than a new economy car and in most cases even a newer luxury model car. There may be more bells and whistles which are nice on new cars but it's fairly evident they have skimped on elements of the suspension and body that reduce roughness and road noise. There's a very marked difference in quality of vehicles made before and after the "realignment" prompted by the great recession, even as those cars are approaching 14-16 years old.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#740

Post by dh2022 »

digitallis42 wrote: post #658
evgen wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one of those 'was it really that long ago? I am getting old' moments to actually look this up, but the last major safety features which moved the needle on keeping you alive in a car were the mandates for side-impact protection and anti-lock braking systems. Both are more than ten years old. I think you would be hard-pressed to name a single innovation from the past five years which has increased your lifespan…

Adaptive cruise was still higher end at that time. Certainly not ubiquitous at the mid tier. Heck, it's barely ubiquitous now. Both adaptive cruise and automatic emergency braking are game changer features for safety on the highway.

Adaptive driving is a nuisance for me whenever I rent a new car (it seems most of the rentals have this feature). Those visual and audio cues going off when I am in the middle of changing lanes is very disconcerting - and makes me lose focus for a fraction of a second. I wish I could turn it off - but after one look at that hot mess on that center touch-screen I back off in repulsion.

(I also do not like the lights on the side mirrors that indicate a vehicle coming by. I constantly think - what about false positives - and then I double check my blind spot)

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