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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#671

Post by potato3732842 »

acdha wrote: post #535
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> coworker of mine just spent $100k on a regular old pickup truck > It gets like 11 mpg and uses the 92 octane fuel. I understand hating on pickup trucks is an easy way to farm upvotes on HN, but there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg. The closest that comes to that is the F-150 Raptor with turbocharged V8 which is a preposterous performance vehicle with a racing engine. It is a luxury item.…

> there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg Point but e.g. the 2024 Silverado gets 12mpg in city driving. Go to any office parking lot here and you’ll see a lot of that size truck which have clearly never been used harder than going to Costco - and even the better ones are barely approaching ⅔ of the mpg of the pickup my grandparents bought in the 1980s. I do agree that from a pollution standpo…

>approaching ⅔ of the mpg of the pickup my grandparents bought in the 1980s.

It's for your own good, peasant. That 1989 S10 (or whatever else got mid 20s around that time) had basically no crash protection let alone ABS and ESC and.... and... and.......

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#672

Post by vel0city »

yftsui wrote: post #644
m463 wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of the last generation of pro-level film cameras. They were expensive, but well designed and durable, yet ... who wants to pay in time and money to develop film every 36 pictures? I think some really good gas cars only make sense if you use them infrequently to haul heavy things or lots of passengers. Otherwise it is getting cheaper to run an EV - you might even charge it with electricity you capture yourself…

Develop film takes time, same as why somebody wait for hours and hours just to get an EV charged? The “last generation” can “recharge” to 450miles in 3 minutes at a gas station then move on.

> same as why somebody wait for hours and hours just to get an EV charged?

I spend hours a year more waiting for gas pumps for my ICE than I spend waiting on my EV to charge. And I put way more miles on my EV than my ICE.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#673

Post by vel0city »

snapcaster wrote: post #657
logotype wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never, EVER, buy any BYD or any car manufactured in China. Support local brands who manufacture locally.

Why? edit: presumably you don't (or can't) hold this position for electronics or a myriad of other devices you already own. Why are cars different?

I'd totally buy a phone that was mostly US produced if it was the same (or better) quality within ~30% of the same price.

I do tend to apply this same idea to a lot of things I buy. If there's an American version available with at least similar quality and some % of similar price, I'll pick the US one nearly every time. Goes even further when its something I know is made in my state, even further when it comes to the city I live in. The vast majority of the beer I drink is made in the city I live in, for example.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#674

Post by drawkward »

015a wrote: post #599
drawkward wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are now changing your claim; you originally said or quoted lower cost models. Yes, I'd take that bet.

[flagged]

They certainly enjoy the fact that I don't make unsubstantiated and unwarranted ad hominem attacks!

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#675

Post by vel0city »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #545
acdha wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg Point but e.g. the 2024 Silverado gets 12mpg in city driving. Go to any office parking lot here and you’ll see a lot of that size truck which have clearly never been used harder than going to Costco - and even the better ones are barely approaching ⅔ of the mpg of the pickup my grandparents bought in the 1980s. I do agree that from a pollution standpo…

> they produce higher tire and brake particulates which are known to cause health issues Interesting you mention tire particulates, because there is nothing worse for this than - brace yourself - electric vehicles. https://grist.org/transportation/electric-vehicles-are-a-cli...

I didn't realize ICE vehicles don't have tires. News to me.

There is a slight increase in tire particulates, sure. A small increase. There's also a lot less brake particulates. And get this: there's no tailpipe emissions either.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#676

Post by vel0city »

epistasis wrote: post #425
asciimov wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the only people benefiting from all green power subsidies are the people that least need them. We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities.

That's an odd way of looking at it. Those who are most able to pay for it are those who are paying for the highest initial costs, lowering the costs for everyone else by improvements in the technology, and making it easier for others to adopt later. Early adopters take lots of risk on things not working out well, and learning what things can go wrong and how to fix them (at additional expense, too.) This is much bett…

Paying wealthy people to leave the power grid isn't making it cheaper for those left behind. It is making it more expensive for those who couldn't afford to leave the grid. Now more of the share of the cost to maintain all the infrastructure is pushed on to those who couldn't afford to leave it.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#677

Post by vel0city »

jebarker wrote: post #413
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking one single family home solar does not provide a measurable environmental impact in aggregate. OP doesn't have to pay the electric bill anymore, but the average residential solar install exceeds $30k before credits. Someone has to pay off that loan... Not to mention the Chinese factory that manufactured the solar panels is probably dumping toxic waste chemicals into the local drinking water unabated. We're all…

> Taking one single family home solar does not provide a measurable environmental impact in aggregate. In order for large numbers of homes to go solar, individual homes need to go solar. Are you saying we just shouldn't bother with solar and EVs because not everyone is going to do it? May aswell just stop donating to charity too right? > Someone has to pay off that loan... I think the OP is probably paying for the lo…

> In order for large numbers of homes to go solar, individual homes need to go solar.

The percentage of energy going to my house which was generated by solar continues to go up every year. And yet I haven't installed a single solar panel. Strange huh?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#678

Post by vel0city »

ben_w wrote: post #573
solarpunk wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number is in the ballpark of what it costs to install solar on a rooftop here in Minnesota. The other part is these solar gardens don't stop paying for your electric bill if you move, so it's especially equitable for renters.

6.9MW / 700 homes is 9.85 kW/home. Two of these would do more than that (10.5 kW), for (at current exchange rates) $5934, or just over a quarter that price: https://www.kaufland.de/product/512021383/?search_value=sola... And even at that price, it's overlapping in price range with the non-solar equivalents. The funny thing is, I grew up (in the UK) with news stories about how the latest computers were so expensive in…

That's just the panels. So, I buy a bunch of panels, they get dropped off by a truck, and then...? I'm going to use slave labor to assemble it all and wire it all up?

The price for installed solar in the US isn't high because of the panels. Its high because of the labor costs.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#679

Post by HellDunkel »

FactKnower69 wrote: post #574
bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

If you're an American wondering why you're forced to buy shitty overpriced Teslas instead of those $15k BYD Dolphins, here's Janet Yellen screeching about how unfair it is that China uses its labor force to manufacture consumer goods instead of creating millions of bullshit make-work financialization jobs like good liberal democracies https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yellen-intends-warn-...

So you are blaming your good liberal democratic goverment for not protecting your market enough which forces you to make a living on some bs job while at the same time you complain that the market is overly protected so you cant get a cheap dolphin.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#680

Post by vel0city »

epistasis wrote: post #602
secabeen wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peak load without solar is not midday. Here's an NYT article from 1975 about introduction of Time of Use billing describing peak rates being in the morning and evening: > Mrs. Wells changed her housework habits because for part of the year it costs her more than six times as much to use electricity from 8 A.M. to 11 A.M. and 5 P.M. to 9 P.M. as it costs during the rest of the day. https://www.nytimes.com/1975/06/29/a…

You're making a blanket statement about peak time which is incorrect. Historically in Califorinia, peak load has been in the afternoon, which I count as midday. At least, it's when solar panels are still pumping out a ton of power: https://www.caiso.com/Documents/CaliforniaISOPeakLoadHistory... You're posting a random day in winter in California, where overall consumption is low even at its highest, because there's v…

> peak load has been in the afternoon, which I count as midday

Mid day is the middle of the day, as in noon. You might as well be arguing that you define three as five.

5PM is not "mid day". So you're cherry-picking time frames, making up definitions for things, and still not showing a mid day peak energy use, you're showing a late afternoon energy use.

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