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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#541

Post by dingaling »

bluGill wrote: post #534
jmward01 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always buy used so I have some time left, but not much. When I bought my last vehicle the person had one of those insurance GPS devices in it. I can't even begin to understand why anyone would do that. It is so obviously going to be used against the driver and it is also obvious that it will eventually become 'required' and that just depresses me.

If you drive the speed limit and otherwise follow all those things they teach you in drivers ed but almost nobody does once they pass their drivers test those will save you money. The average driver is really bad.

Not at all - telematics schemes also penalise subjective measures such as "over-revving" and "cornering with too much lateral g".

Royal Mail drivers in the UK found themselves being disciplined for exceeding telematics thresholds when the company transitioned back to petrol-engined vans, from diesel, because they are driven in a very different manner.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#542

Post by irq-1 »

solarpunk wrote: post #340
asciimov wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the only people benefiting from all green power subsidies are the people that least need them. We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities.

>We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities. Good news, these are called "community solar gardens" and they exist all around the USA, here's a large one based in Minneapolis: https://www.cooperativeenergyfutures.com/

> CEF has financed and developed 6.9MW (~$16M) of low-income-accessible community solar arrays that ... offsets the utility bills of over 700 Minnesota households for the next 25 years

$16M for 700 homes = $22,857.14/home

That's not an investment, it's just charity by other means.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#543

Post by bitsage »

knowitnone wrote: post #378

After reading some of the comments, the next questions, why are automakers not building plants in Africa? Cheap labor force, cheap land, probably needs education and training. China is courting Africa, is the US?

Recent Japanese and Chinese automotive plants have gone up in the more stable countries on the continent such as Ghana, Egypt, and Kenya, but I assume this production will all be for local consumption.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#544

Post by 015a »

drawkward wrote: post #237
015a wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely; but it is at least indicative of the direction Tesla is taking. It might be the end of 2025, 2026, whenever; but they've said they're working on lower cost models. That's all I'm asserting.

Why anyone would take Elon at his word is beyond me.

Elon did not say that. Tesla The Company said that.

Ask yourself this: I bet you a thousand dollars that Tesla will release either a lower cost model or a lower cost trim of an existing model before the end of 2026. Would you take the other side of that bet?

That's directionality. Deadlines might get missed. I'm talking about directionality.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#545

Post by wannacboatmovie »

acdha wrote: post #535
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> coworker of mine just spent $100k on a regular old pickup truck > It gets like 11 mpg and uses the 92 octane fuel. I understand hating on pickup trucks is an easy way to farm upvotes on HN, but there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg. The closest that comes to that is the F-150 Raptor with turbocharged V8 which is a preposterous performance vehicle with a racing engine. It is a luxury item.…

> there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg Point but e.g. the 2024 Silverado gets 12mpg in city driving. Go to any office parking lot here and you’ll see a lot of that size truck which have clearly never been used harder than going to Costco - and even the better ones are barely approaching ⅔ of the mpg of the pickup my grandparents bought in the 1980s. I do agree that from a pollution standpo…

> they produce higher tire and brake particulates which are known to cause health issues

Interesting you mention tire particulates, because there is nothing worse for this than - brace yourself - electric vehicles.

https://grist.org/transportation/electric-vehicles-are-a-cli...

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#546

Post by dogleash »

bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

> Americans won't buy cheap cars

Not from a new car dealership, no. They'll buy cheap cars, but the mere act of driving a new car off the lot is a huge deprecation event in the life of the car. Why would price sensitive buyers go to the dealership?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#547

Post by syndicatedjelly »

nunez wrote: post #359
snakeyjake wrote: post #311

There are inexpensive EVs in the US. A local dealer has new Nissan Leafs available for $24.5k (after rebates) all day, every day. There are also inexpensive cars. A local dealer has new Mitsubishi Mirage Hatchbacks available for $17k all day, every day. People don't want them. They're not being tricked, cajoled, strong-armed, forced, pressured, misguided, or hoodwinked. American consumers WANT and CAN AFFORD gigantic…

People don't want Leafs because they come with too many compromises. Small battery, slow, weird and phased-out charging port; list goes on. It's a first-gen EV through and through. However, Nissan's second EV, the Ariya, is selling much better! Crossover CUV (which America wants), bigger battery, fast, stylish, starts at $39.5k. We also now have sub-$30k used Tesla's out in the market too.

People not wanting a Leaf is how I got mine for dirt cheap. I also happen to live in a state with an extraordinary EV tax credit.

The annoyances of the Leaf are overstated, and the benefits are way better than people give credit for.

If people do what’s popular, they have to accept a popularity tax for the “keeping up with the Joneses” lifestyle

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#548

Post by darknavi »

klooney wrote: post #349
darknavi wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheap-ish electric cars exist, they're just not, generally, suited to US consumer preferences. Some of the brands you listed aren't even really available in the US, or if they are that are 100% marked up with tariffs. Big cars are definitely a thing in the US, but I'd kill for a ~$20k smaller EV hatch commuter to swap out my Model 3.

The small hatch EVs have generally had ~200 mile ranges, which is a little tough

That'd be perfect for me to be honest. We have a Tesla Model Y which we can road trip in. I'm just looking for a slick, efficient commuter. I normally only charge my Model 3 to ~60%, which is ~150 miles of range anyways.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#550

Post by novaleaf »

jerlam wrote: post #515
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> coworker of mine just spent $100k on a regular old pickup truck > It gets like 11 mpg and uses the 92 octane fuel. I understand hating on pickup trucks is an easy way to farm upvotes on HN, but there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg. The closest that comes to that is the F-150 Raptor with turbocharged V8 which is a preposterous performance vehicle with a racing engine. It is a luxury item.…

The external effects of large pickup trucks are drastically more than that of a small sports car, in ways that are more immediate than climate change. Large pickup trucks take up a lot more space on the road and parking lots, are harder to see around, and when they get into accidents they cause a lot more damage and injuries to people both in and out of cars. There is a very different visceral response to a large pic…

I think it's a strange argument: that buying a truck is "worse" than buying a sports car. I think the term "apples and oranges" is applicable here. The former are both vehicles and the latter are both fruit, but otherwise have fairly different cost/benefit.
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