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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#451

Post by laidoffamazon »

asciimov wrote: post #329
GratiaTerra wrote: post #248

I took advantage of the IRA solar power and $7500 EV credit, now I have an off grid home all electric appliances and excess power for hot tubs and EV's. The Ford Lightning acts as a generator. This was the greatest most life changing and impactful legistlation ever: I've had $0 (ZERO!) in gasoline, LP, and electric utility bills since installation last year.

It's too bad that the only people benefiting from all green power subsidies are the people that least need them. We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities.

The domestic manufacturing component is helpful to many of the people in the "Battery belt" and in auto manufacturing!

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#452

Post by Hilift »

snakeyjake wrote: post #311

There are inexpensive EVs in the US. A local dealer has new Nissan Leafs available for $24.5k (after rebates) all day, every day. There are also inexpensive cars. A local dealer has new Mitsubishi Mirage Hatchbacks available for $17k all day, every day. People don't want them. They're not being tricked, cajoled, strong-armed, forced, pressured, misguided, or hoodwinked. American consumers WANT and CAN AFFORD gigantic…

All true, and there is still a viable used car market. Even cars that may require a bit more maintenance are a win by a large margin. Some things are just expensive. Ever price out a replacement 8" entertainment console in a vehicle? Probably ~$2,500 and up. Replacement LED headlights? Over $1,000. (Third party is your friend there). Regular maintenance like water pumps, brakes, serpentine belts are economical by comparison.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#453

Post by xattt »

hedora wrote: post #401
GratiaTerra wrote: post #248

I took advantage of the IRA solar power and $7500 EV credit, now I have an off grid home all electric appliances and excess power for hot tubs and EV's. The Ford Lightning acts as a generator. This was the greatest most life changing and impactful legistlation ever: I've had $0 (ZERO!) in gasoline, LP, and electric utility bills since installation last year.

The thing is, we paid $50,000 to drive a brand new, mid trim line kia 99kwh ev9 off the lot. It supposedly will also support V2H with an upcoming update. They’re moving production of that model to Georgia, for what it’s worth. Anyway, the lightning looks great. It’s definitely a tempting replacement for our ICE truck.

I’m conflicted about buying Kia again. I’ve got a recent model Sorento and the dealer where I have to take it is dogshit. I say I have to, because the next dealer is a $50 bridge toll and 2-hour drive away.

I’ve been charged for things that should be under warranty. They refused to do a permanent fix for a recall after they did a temporary fix. Dealing with corporate is an exercise in being gaslit and living in a Kafkaesque nightmare.

Kia and possibly Hyundai are in purgatory right now: they’re innovating and making cars that no one else is. Their dealer network, however, can have some sleazy used car sales personalities and make for a terrible experience that can ruin your week.

Pick your poison.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#454

Post by serjester »

mediaman wrote: post #426
redwall_hp wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy an American car. I remember my parents' multiple Dodges and Fords catastrophically failing before they switched to Toyota. US car companies have created the lasting idea that cars are dead at 100K miles, because those companies' cars absolutely were. Meanwhile, I bought my Honda at 148K and it's over 210K now and doing fine. Tesla seems to live up to the legendary Ford quality, with hilarious workman…

I believe it's worth pointing out that with your Toyota, you're still buying an American car. The vast majority of Toyota vehicles sold in America are made in US plants. Which is a good thing! It shows that those other quality issues are not related to US labor force, or some intrinsic American inability to make high quality goods.

Designs, manufactures and sells all in the US. For all intensive purpose, the Japanese exert a rather small influence on the day to day operations

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#455

Post by elashri »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #375
elashri wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the US is complaining a lot about that when it is the other countries doing that. Even here, average commentator will call it a foul (whataboittism) if you point out that. You can't eat the cake and have it. Either you follow the fair trade requirements or don't complain about others not doing the same. If you say standards, then follow by lead and respect them. Also I do not think every country d…

The us of course subsidizes our manufacturing (whatever is left of it), just like many other countries. I don't know if our $7500 tax rebates on locally made EVs with non-chinese batteries compare to Chinese govt subsidies. But it's clear that EVs are going to be much much cheaper to make, maintain, and recycle over time. This is a threat to all kinds of incumbents. We face the destruction of a lot of our manufacturi…

The US is subsiding a lot of industries. Aviation, agriculture (specially agricultural exports), transportation and energy. They just introduced CHIPSA act to promote US companies chipa production and a lot more. When china does this (which is does) then this is far cry and outright harmful for international trade. Lets get out of comparison between US and China. Smaller countries will be hit hard (even with sanctions) if they try to do something from that.

The point here is that the US, China shouldn't try to prevent other countries from doing what they are doing and forcing them to harm their local economy and open markets under the disguise of free trade.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#456

Post by jjtheblunt »

solardev wrote: post #285
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda think the whole thing is just Elon tricking republicans into buying electric cars.

Masterful move right there. Maybe he can trick them all into going to Mars next? They don't call it the Red Planet for nuthin.

that's the first thing about politics that made me smile in months i think.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#457

Post by cpburns2009 »

some_random wrote: post #233
short_sells_poo wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants this, but in an imperfect world, one has to make suboptimal compromises. You can get an EV, and then have to deal with half a dozen barely competent charging networks each with their own donkey, slow and insecure app, their own quirks and pricing schemes, etc. For some, the tradeoff is worth it, for others it isn't. You can also get a PHEV, which could allow you to use one car for commuting purely on ele…

I think you'll find most normal people find PHEVs extremely attractive propositions that are a perfect compromise between ICE and EVs.

I'm waiting for an EREV midsize SUV. EREV sounds like the ideal layout as opposed to HEV and PHEV which sound mechanically over complicated with too many components that can go wrong. The new Dodge Ramcharger sounds amazing but I don't want a pickup and it's way outside of my price point.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#458

Post by matthewdgreen »

vundercind wrote: post #164
matthewdgreen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the high maintenance costs. Just took a hybrid SUV in for maintenance after my maintenance plan expired, got a depressingly high price quote for extended maintenance. Adds literally thousands of dollars to the price.

I don't know what a "quote for extended maintenance" is. Like a subscription/insurance sort of thing? I've always just taken cars in around the time they're supposed to have things looked at based on maintenance tables, or when something goes wrong.

Extended maintenance plans cover oil changes and normal scheduled service. They're separate from warranties and only cover some wear parts. Most manufacturers sell one. See: https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/prepaid-maintenance-plans...

They're sometimes overpriced (due to dealer upsell) and sometimes a good way to estimate what the manufacturer estimates that routine maintenance will cost, at least using their in-house service center. They can run $1000 to several thousand dollars for luxury cars.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#459

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

scottyah wrote: post #346
larkost wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There's also the closing of his factory by the lady that didn't like him during covid, the Biden administration's decision to never mention Tesla, instead proclaiming that manufacturers like GM were making America Electric (Tesla sold way more electric cars, and they are much more American).

> the Biden administration's decision to never mention Tesla, instead proclaiming that manufacturers like GM were making America Electric (Tesla sold way more electric cars, and they are much more American).

This always bugged me.

Look, I'm no fan of Elon Musk, but Tesla has been the most influential car manufacturer in the EV space. To blatantly ignore them when talking about the electrification of cars in America is simply madness.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#460

Post by NotSammyHagar »

fsckboy wrote: post #438
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police force in the next city doesn't really benefit me, so F them, right? Reducing greenhouse gases and the price of electricity (such as from super cheap customer provided solar power on the grid during the day) actually does benefit me and every other electricity consumer. Some conservatives are really stuck on the $7500 rebate, they are so excited to maintain our existing industrial base. They are in extreme…

you're just angry, and anger makes people incoherent. You do benefit from the police in the next town, and turns out, you don't pay for it, so I have no idea what you are talking about. liberals should be stuck on the $7500 rebate, read my separate response about achieving even more climate benefit.

I've never. Like elon musk, i already got my 7500 rebates. Pull the ladder up behind me, just like him and you too i guess
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