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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#371
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> As evidence look at all of the quickly disproven posts on a wide range of topics that Elon has posted. He did no research at all before posting those things (despite a large following, and thus large responsibility). He "felt" that the post was good/right, so he went with it. Or, more likely, he knows exactly what he is doing.

Nah...

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the only people benefiting from all green power subsidies are the people that least need them. We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities.

>We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities. Good news, these are called "community solar gardens" and they exist all around the USA, here's a large one based in Minneapolis: https://www.cooperativeenergyfutures.com/

Community net monitoring isn’t allowed in California.

Instead, PG&E let the grid fall apart, so now they’re charging crippling amounts of money to people that can’t afford solar.

On the one hand, with the help of subsidies, our house is off-grid capable, and our power bill is $0-50.

On the other hand, there’s a red-tagged neighborhood near by (they built homes despite not having power grid access), and they usually end up having a generator fire take out a few houses every couple of years.

Anyway, I really wish California had a second political party (not the GOP).

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#373

I took advantage of the IRA solar power and $7500 EV credit, now I have an off grid home all electric appliances and excess power for hot tubs and EV's. The Ford Lightning acts as a generator. This was the greatest most life changing and impactful legistlation ever: I've had $0 (ZERO!) in gasoline, LP, and electric utility bills since installation last year.

Plus you reduced your GHG emissions considerably too probably!

this is a good example of how individuals are fine to do things for the public good when they are consequential or at least compatible with the things in their best interest. We're willing to self sacrifice only so (and not very) far, so need to apply that goodwill very strategically. Another example: I commute by bike everyday, not because it's cheaper, healthy good for the environment (even though these are all true), but because I love it and it's so enjoyable - even it winter. Screw with the roads, or traffic patterns, or waste my property taxes, or neglect the bikes paths and snow removal enough and I'll either stop or move.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#374

I took advantage of the IRA solar power and $7500 EV credit, now I have an off grid home all electric appliances and excess power for hot tubs and EV's. The Ford Lightning acts as a generator. This was the greatest most life changing and impactful legistlation ever: I've had $0 (ZERO!) in gasoline, LP, and electric utility bills since installation last year.

It's great now but when it starts to degrade and needs maintenance and replacement that's now entirely your problem, there is no utility with a huge staff of electricians and linesmen ready to deal with that on a sub-zero winter day or in the middle of a rainy night.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All this talk assumes that USA or Western countries have always had a level playing field whereas companies like Boeing or Airbus are prime counter examples As I said, every country does it. It is rational to protect your own manufacturing industry. China does it. We do it. European countries do it. Just because we protect our own industry does not mean we have to protect China's interests too. That's their problem…

The problem is that the US is complaining a lot about that when it is the other countries doing that. Even here, average commentator will call it a foul (whataboittism) if you point out that. You can't eat the cake and have it. Either you follow the fair trade requirements or don't complain about others not doing the same. If you say standards, then follow by lead and respect them. Also I do not think every country d…

The us of course subsidizes our manufacturing (whatever is left of it), just like many other countries. I don't know if our $7500 tax rebates on locally made EVs with non-chinese batteries compare to Chinese govt subsidies. But it's clear that EVs are going to be much much cheaper to make, maintain, and recycle over time. This is a threat to all kinds of incumbents. We face the destruction of a lot of our manufacturing industrial base if we don't convert some more of it to EVs, and this will also be destabilizing to our politics. Add on the enmity of the gas and oil industry (helped a tiiiny bit by Trump's victory).

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#376
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It leads to market separation. No one outside the US will buy US made when they have cheaper Chinese cars as an option. And the US can’t force external competitiveness to emerge with those subsidies in place. Not to mention internally having to buy more expensive transport has knock on effects to the entire economy.

In a way, that doesn’t matter for the US. Consider that the US has an enormous trade deficit. If the US brought to even, then all those exporting countries with large surpluses would be in bad shape. This is a complex problem, and when the US is the importer from the world, the mere decision to stop importing would send shockwaves through trade everywhere.

The problem is -the us exports one thing en mass- security. And its starting to use that for shakedowns- which is the moment everybody becomes his own sheriff.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#377
post #5

Money quote: “As automakers were profit maximizing during the supply chain crisis era, you are going to prioritize the bigger vehicles, the more expensive vehicles with their higher margins,” Tyson Jominy, vice president of data and analytics at J.D. Power, told me. “Now we just don’t have” these cheaper models.

Why did they just start "maximizing profit" recently?

Did all the bad bad no good CEO's just read The Prince or something?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never been illegal to produce small cars in the US. It's a tragedy of the commons that the more over-sized cars on the road the more intimidated the average driver and the more compensation in the sizes of other cars to "keep up". Over-sized SUVs and trucks aren't penalized enough for their domination and essentially destruction of the commons space. That's also what fuels some of the demand for high-margin cars…

> It's never been illegal to produce small cars in the US I think they're referring to the practice of making cars larger to pass as trucks so they are faced with more lax fuel-efficiency standards.

Even without the bogus classifications, the EPA emissions regulations are inversely proportional to the footprint of the car. That rewards manufacturers for not offering small cars.

The "light truck" designation is made on the basis of features like cargo capacity and ground clearance. The Subaru Outback was properly classified as a car until the smaller PT Cruiser got its truck designation and they justifiably complained.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#380

> The cheapest car Tesla currently sells in the U.S. starts at around $43,000—or $35,500 with a federal tax credit of $7,500. Curious if anyone knows — do people actually drive off the lot with a Tesla for $35,500?

Teslas are one of the few vehicles where you can actually get the model at the lowest price they advertise because they are all delivery. Almost every other make and model will show you a price in their advertisements that you can’t find anywhere and make you wait forever to order one. I’ve often thought it was deceptive advertising because the price they show in their TV ad is one almost nobody actually gets or like…

The cheapest Teslas are also best selling Teslas. With Teslas the base model is really good and more expensive models offer either longer range or performance of a Porsche for half the price.
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