the only manufacturer that does this right is Aptera, the rest is a bunch of gimmicks / subsidy fraud that doesn't solve any actual problem with cars
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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
151–160 of 780 posts
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#152https://archive.ph/9oIT4 I wish it would have adjusted for inflation. One quote: "The average transaction price for a new vehicle sold in the U.S. last month was $48,623, according to Kelley Blue Book, roughly $10,000 higher than in 2019, before the pandemic." However, about 9200 euros of that is due to inflation according to this calculator: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ That's a nitpick though. All in all,…
Is the car 10k more expensive because of inflation or is the inflation so high because the car costs 10k more?
I had the same thought. You can actually look up the inflation data by category:
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/find-me-the-cpi-inflation-d...
New cars actually match the total average inflation the closest of any categories (22.3% for new cars vs 22.1% all items). Also interesting to note that food is up 30.7%, transport is up 39.5 % and shelter is up 27.6% in the past 5 years!
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
We need laws that ban these junk fees. Any advertised price should be one I can get when I walk in. I cannot get the car without registration. I cannot get the car without 'destination' fee. Bake it into the price.
Just ask the dealer to compute the out the door price. It really isn't that difficult and certainly doesn't require yet another stupid regulation!
So instead of easily comparing prices online, now you have to call dealers individually and ask them to compute the out the door price? Which they already know and could post online themselves?
This is exactly the kind of problem regulations are meant to solve. Preventing false advertising and bringing information to all market participants make the market more efficient.
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because demand isn't the issue. The issue is a new car that isn't a budget brand is increasingly a luxury option in the United States, because, and say it with me... Wages have been stagnant in the United States for nearly 50 years. Every economic stat right now points to this as the core issue. Consumers are squeezed more on every last good and service, tons of services are now only available via subscriptions which…
>Wages have been stagnant in the United States for nearly 50 years. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881500A There simply isn't data to back this up. What you are referring to is capital gains (CEO pay) compared to hourly pay (employee pay), which is a misleading apples to oranges comparison.
No, I'm talking about the stagnant wages: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...
Though, I don't think it's possible to talk about this without also talking about the ludicrous salaries now drawn by the executives either.
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#155It's the Wall Street Journal.
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the EV car market is lacking demand There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.
I can't make great use of a full EV but would love more AWD PHEV options, of which there are currently few and they're mostly very expensive. A PHEV can be my everything-car that runs entirely on electricity for 90% of trips. I assume there's some reason they're not a more widely-supported option, but damn, I wish they were more common.
Maybe because PHEV are a really dumb idea? You're lugging around two complete powertrains the whole time, a massive waste of energy!
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
We need laws that ban these junk fees. Any advertised price should be one I can get when I walk in. I cannot get the car without registration. I cannot get the car without 'destination' fee. Bake it into the price.
Registration cost is too variable. Varies by state, and even by city.
So compute and post some defaults? At least the state and city that the dealership is located in?
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Nissan Versa currently starts around $17k, and I see a lot of those on the road. The Mitsubishi Mirage is similarly priced but I don't think I've ever seen one in the wild. I rented a Kia Soul a few years ago and thought it was perfectly fine. But with so few options, like the parent, I'm planning to keep my current car (a 2008 Prius) indefinitely, just paying for repairs as needed until parts are unavailable or…
I rented a Versa about 5-6 years ago and I was surprised how completely "fine" it was. It was a totally functional vehicle. The radio sounded good enough. The seats were comfy enough. It was a bit of a slug, but it had enough power so that you weren't scared for your life when merging onto a highway. If those sound like low standards... well, this was not always the case for bargain basement cars...
Right. I've been saying for a while that if you need four seats or fewer, there's no good reason to buy anything more expensive than an entry-level Versa, Soul, Corolla, Civic, etc. (If you need five or more seats, especially with kids' car seats, you're obviously looking at more expensive three-row minivans.)
One way of looking at it, validating the point that others have already made in their comments, it is that there are no bargain basement cars anymore; everything now comes with an automatic transmission, air conditioning, power locks and windows, cameras and sensors, etc. As recently as 2008 when I was buying my Prius, these things were optional on many models. Today's compact cars are, I think, the size of midsize cars from 20 years ago too.
It's kind of like housing in America where the cost per square foot didn't actually rise much in some places, but the average home is now twice the size, so the average home price doubled.
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the EV car market is lacking demand There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.
Yep. Midrange-to-expensive EVs have been around for long enough that pretty much everybody in those market segments who are currently interested have already bought one. Additionally, the segment has been flooded with midsize SUVs, with the odd midsize sedan — variety is sorely lacking. Between these two, quite a considerable market is being left unaddressed. The first to fill these niches with affordable models that…
> The first to fill these niches with affordable models...
And is not tariffed to the point they are not competitive.
I'm on the fence as to whether tariffs are good or bad, but I do wonder if an external player might not be able to come in and shake up the US auto industry.
I feel like the working class in the U.S. are paying way too much for what amounts to a necessity for their livelihood: the automobile. We'd all benefit (the planet that is) if the options included inexpensive electrics rather than merely gas and diesel.
Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
IIRC the US has some ass-backwards fuel economy laws that mean it's essentially illegal to produce small cars. Also there's enough demand for high-margin cars to max out available production capacity, and would you want to be making major investments in ICE car production right now?
It's never been illegal to produce small cars in the US. It's a tragedy of the commons that the more over-sized cars on the road the more intimidated the average driver and the more compensation in the sizes of other cars to "keep up". Over-sized SUVs and trucks aren't penalized enough for their domination and essentially destruction of the commons space. That's also what fuels some of the demand for high-margin cars…
> It's never been illegal to produce small cars in the US
I think they're referring to the practice of making cars larger to pass as trucks so they are faced with more lax fuel-efficiency standards.