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How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

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Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#181
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call losing your source of income and maybe your health insurance no practical repercussions. I don’t know in which countries you worked but I didn’t have any problems getting out of a contract.

America has very low unemployment and median household incomes are among the highest in the world. You get to continue your existing health insurance 18 months after you quit if you wish, you just have to pay for it. Most people can and if you can’t then the government pays for it. While getting terminated is disruptive, it isn’t the end of the world for the typical American. The relative ease with which most people…

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Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#182
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most of them there is an initial probationary trial period during which you can easily fire someone without providing any justification, and with a minimal mandatory notice. It goes both ways: during that time, the employee too can quit with a reduced mandatory notice. That only covers the "if that person ends up sucking" part though. For the other "business falling apart", maybe they consider it’s part of the bus…

> For the other "business falling apart", maybe they consider it’s part of the business owner’s responsibility to make sound business decisions when involving someone else’s livelihood. Just like when leasing a shop or taking on a loan. What about running a tech startup with high chance of failure? Ever considered why they seem to be few and far between in EU?

No, I really haven’t. Please enlighten me.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#183
post #38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pretty normal in banking/consulting fields. not sure they write it in the job listing though.

80 hours is mostly a lie for folks experienced enough to have families. What becomes more common is 80+ hours of “I’m responsive whenever I’m asked.”

> mostly a lie for folks experienced enough to have families

Surviving to that level is HARD. Most Junior Analysts in the IB and Consulting World flame out and exit the industry within 2-3 years.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#184

Why don't they just emigrate? Work culture seems to be better just about everywhere and on top of that, salaries in Japan are shit, and anyone with half the Japanese work ethics will be a dream employee in U.S. or let alone Europe which is full of entitled, lazy slackers.

> Why don't they just emigrate

This is why you see plenty of Japanese (and Korean) expats across China and ASEAN. A mid-level Japanese employee can become a senior manager in Thailand or Vietnam while earning a similar salary to Japan ($20-40k).

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in IT, it's not even necessary to emigrate- foreign owned companies offer significantly better salaries and working conditions. The sticking point is English ability. It's genuinely a very difficult thing to learn a second language to the point of being workplace-functional in it, and an additional level of daily stress and mental effort to do everything in your non-native language. The culture here doesn't…

But isn't it kinda mandatory for any IT person to speak usable English, worldwide? Even if super closed societies where language education sucks beyond imagination, like Russia, they mostly do.

Not really in Japan. Everything is available in Japanese if it's not Japanese made in the first place. Complete lack of English skill + wide coverage of industry is probably a huge moat for Japan even in IT.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#186

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

> If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win.

That sounds rather exaggerated. There may have been cases of an employee being sued for damages by their a employer for not performing their jobs well, but I've personally never heard of them and without digging deep into courts records, I doubt there are many of these.

The reason I highly doubt that, is that even just firing employees in Japan who are half-assing their job requires going to court and providing ample evidence that the employee has been continuously under-performing even though they were notified, given opportunity and failed to improve.

This standard is considered so high, that Japanese companies rarely fire employees for this type of reason (Ordinary termination 普通解雇 futsuu kaiko). When companies absolutely want to get rid of a certain employee, they often prefer to slowly make the employee's life miserable by giving them them demeaning tasks (or in some cases just no tasks at all!), bullying them and cutting their pay — a practice generally called iyagarase (roughly translated as "making someone feeling unpleasant"). That kind of play can also land the employer in legal trouble, but at least the burden of proof would fall on the employee. In many other cases still, companies just keep around employees that are under performing or convince them to take an voluntary retirement package.

In addition to all of that, employment contracts generally require a 30 day notice before quitting in Japan (I guess this is the maximum set by law). Combine that with the fact that most employees tend to have at least 14 days of unused leave accumulated, which they'd use just before leaving, they're not left with so enough working days in which they can half-ass their jobs.

I'm not quite sure about breaking your contract for contract employees, but it the original example ("I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting") doesn't seem like a contract employee, and the term "black companies" and the discourse around usually refers to full-time employment. It's probably just threats, as the quote says. Managers sometimes say the craziest things to scare their companies out of quitting.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Musk claims to work that hard himself (or more), but the difference is that he is a direct beneficiary and earns millions per hour. Whereas a regular employee earns X amount per month, that's it. Maybe some scraps in stock market value, but one of Musk's tweets has more of an impact on those than a career of 80 hour work weeks would of any employee.

Also, one might be forgiven for doubting him on that; unless he's counting 'painfully stupid tweets' as 'work', the sheer volume of them would call the _possibility_ of this into question.

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Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#188
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't save because they don't need to since there's always a job available as hiring is so easy. In Europe we need to save in case we want to quit, since then we lose all rights and protections and need to wait months before finding a new job.

A major reason poor people don't save is the inflationary currency and government control of interest rates (plus other central bank policy) encourages debt over saving. We slowly put a noose around our necks because our laws put lights on that runway. We need major reform to get back to a saving mindset. It'll be a world where the government will borrow and print far less money.

Poor people don't save because they are poor and there's nothing to save.

It costs loads more to be poor than to have some money. You won't save money by buying up-front, if your credit is low you'll pay more than a person with more money, you miss payments and the late fees rack up, you overdraft and your fees add up, you can't go on autopay to save money because you risk going into overdraft, etc.

Maybe if the 1% didn't own 50% off all the resources (money) than poor people could find some money to save.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can spell it out, if it helps. In a country with exorbitant healthcare costs, it means that leaving your job means that you (and often your family) don't get healthcare.

COBRA?

COBRA is an expensive joke
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