Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

tofugu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 238 posts

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#31

Post by dopfk09320k »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #11
infotainment wrote: post #2

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…

>No one should discount the value of having the power to tell your employer to fuck off at a moment’s notice with no practical repercussions.

I think you are confusing "it is possible" with "it is common". Never heard of people in Japan get sued for quitting, even with shady English teaching centers. But definitely seen companies do them for scare tactics though.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#32

Post by jandrewrogers »

croes wrote: post #18
jandrewrogers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…

I wouldn’t call losing your source of income and maybe your health insurance no practical repercussions. I don’t know in which countries you worked but I didn’t have any problems getting out of a contract.

America has very low unemployment and median household incomes are among the highest in the world. You get to continue your existing health insurance 18 months after you quit if you wish, you just have to pay for it. Most people can and if you can’t then the government pays for it.

While getting terminated is disruptive, it isn’t the end of the world for the typical American. The relative ease with which most people can get another job is also nice. It is an economy that is structured under the assumption that people will move between jobs and minimizes the friction in doing so.

I have seen the “having a contract” thing abused many times in many countries in Europe. Thanks, but no thanks. I have had that contract multiple times and I don’t want that contract. That safety blanket comes with heavy chains. I’ve seen those contracts used to stifle far too many employees to condone it, employees deserve better.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#33

Post by begueradj »

Culonavirus wrote: post #21

Funny seeing a post about these as that's what I was recently reminded of when reading this post: https://x.com/DOGE/status/1857076831104434289 ("80+ hours per week" ... what kind of a psycho even writes this down and puts it out there as if it was normal in any way...)

That's slavery. Except we call it nowadays: "over performance, over working, over time ... and a free coffee in our office as a reward"

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#34

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

> The Benesse Group has constantly pursued “Benesse (well-being)” and focused on “people” to support the realization of their dreams and ideals. [0]

This is the black company in the third spot. Curious.

[0] https://www.benesse.co.jp/brand/en/about/

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#35

Post by jandrewrogers »

dopfk09320k wrote: post #31
jandrewrogers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…

>No one should discount the value of having the power to tell your employer to fuck off at a moment’s notice with no practical repercussions. I think you are confusing "it is possible" with "it is common". Never heard of people in Japan get sued for quitting, even with shady English teaching centers. But definitely seen companies do them for scare tactics though.

FWIW, I don’t have any experience in Japan, I have no idea what the nuances are like there. I have a lot of experience in Europe, which echoed some of the themes raised.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#37

Post by rukuu001 »

Culonavirus wrote: post #21

Funny seeing a post about these as that's what I was recently reminded of when reading this post: https://x.com/DOGE/status/1857076831104434289 ("80+ hours per week" ... what kind of a psycho even writes this down and puts it out there as if it was normal in any way...)

Reads like a job ad for the worst startup in the world:

  super high-IQ

  +

  small-government revolutionaries

  +

  80+ hours per week

  + 

  on unglamorous cost-cutting

  (salary TDB)

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#38

Post by lumost »

a13n wrote: post #27
Culonavirus wrote: post #21

Funny seeing a post about these as that's what I was recently reminded of when reading this post: https://x.com/DOGE/status/1857076831104434289 ("80+ hours per week" ... what kind of a psycho even writes this down and puts it out there as if it was normal in any way...)

pretty normal in banking/consulting fields. not sure they write it in the job listing though.

80 hours is mostly a lie for folks experienced enough to have families. What becomes more common is 80+ hours of “I’m responsive whenever I’m asked.”

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#39

Post by adastra22 »

croes wrote: post #19
adastra22 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it is definitely an America-centric take. Most of Europe also has strong contract laws. “At-will employment” cuts both ways.

Most of them have strong employee protection laws too which prevent such an abuse

That’s what the phrase “cuts both ways” means.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#40

Post by bboygravity »

raverbashing wrote: post #28
Culonavirus wrote: post #21

Funny seeing a post about these as that's what I was recently reminded of when reading this post: https://x.com/DOGE/status/1857076831104434289 ("80+ hours per week" ... what kind of a psycho even writes this down and puts it out there as if it was normal in any way...)

This is what every employee of Musk's companies should look forward to That's what their ideal compensation and workload be if their boss would have their way

You have worked for Musk?
Post reply on HN