Needs a (2014). This was from almost a decade ago.
*over (somehow)
How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
41–50 of 238 posts
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
pretty normal in banking/consulting fields. not sure they write it in the job listing though.
80 hours is mostly a lie for folks experienced enough to have families. What becomes more common is 80+ hours of “I’m responsive whenever I’m asked.”
+1
80 hours - if a low experience employee completed the work, but only 30 hours since I did.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
>No one should discount the value of having the power to tell your employer to fuck off at a moment’s notice with no practical repercussions. I think you are confusing "it is possible" with "it is common". Never heard of people in Japan get sued for quitting, even with shady English teaching centers. But definitely seen companies do them for scare tactics though.
FWIW, I don’t have any experience in Japan, I have no idea what the nuances are like there. I have a lot of experience in Europe, which echoed some of the themes raised.
Do you have examples ? I have never heard European people being sued for quitting either. The opposite of at-will employment is not that you can't quit. Just that employers can't suddenly fire you without repercussions.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#44> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…
For those not from the Usenet days, IANAL: I'm not a lawyer.
I think it's still a widely used acronym.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn’t call losing your source of income and maybe your health insurance no practical repercussions. I don’t know in which countries you worked but I didn’t have any problems getting out of a contract.
America has very low unemployment and median household incomes are among the highest in the world. You get to continue your existing health insurance 18 months after you quit if you wish, you just have to pay for it. Most people can and if you can’t then the government pays for it. While getting terminated is disruptive, it isn’t the end of the world for the typical American. The relative ease with which most people…
While your comment may shed some light on the nuances, gp’s point shouldn’t be disregarded. Losing income and health insurance is in fact amongst the most practical of repercussions one can experience upon losing a job.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
To balance this comment, if you are a full time employee you are super well protected and cannot be fired for any reason other than gross negligence or actively breaking the law. Managing out a poor performer in Japan is a grinding process that can easily take two years from start to finish
At a US F500 company, HR can still make it onerous to get rid of an underperforming employee. Wants multiple documented poor reviews to avoid any potential for follow-up legal action (which seems incredibly unlikely, but HR wants to cover their butts).
I suspect these processes are also there to prevent “rocking the boat”. There are a number of US F500 companies that are effectively static businesses with predictable market dynamics.
In a stable environment, in a large organization, it doesn’t really make sense to fire people in the hopes of getting someone better. You are more likely to get someone worse, or more expensive, or who has a long ramp up period. It’s possible that the manager trying to exit an employee is exercising subjective/uncalibrated performance guidelines- or is covering their own incompetence.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#47Please add [2014]. It's an interesting read, but temporal context is important. The world has been through a lot. Even if we talk only about Japan, there has been - COVID - Tokyo 2020 Olympics - 3 prime ministers leaving their posts - Shinzo Abe getting shot
The biggest changes in this decade about work environment was the death of Matsuri Takahashi. Work environment in big company is significantly improved after that. https://www.mercer.com/insights/law-and-policy/japan-adopts-...
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
All this has gone a long way to make me feel better about not keeping up my Japanese language skills after university. My youthful deep reverence for Japan and its culture shifted into realpolitik as I learned more and more, and I think another watch of Fear And Trembling is in order…
I kinda want to go there and purchase a 10k house in a village and chill. It’s basically a place where you can retire. I know a bunch of white people who have already done this. Just like how Japan isn’t characterized fully by anime it’s not fully characterized by corporate culture either.
Do you actually know many people (not through social media) that did this? I live here, and I know a few but they mostly fall into one of two camps. 1) Moving into and maintaining the house/land/community relationships is a labor of love, which involves a lot of work or 2) They don't last long once they realize the physical labor, the mental load of the language/culture/isolation.
I'm in the process of buying a house here. I have helped other with the process, too.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#49Needs a (2014). This was from almost a decade ago.
> (2014)... almost a decade ago.
Oh bummer
I cannot quite believe it but it checks out
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#50> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…
Neither of these things is completely true. 1. While it is technically true a company could sue a worker for quitting, the amount of damages they'd have to show is far beyond anything they'd be able to do outside of an upper management position. As far as I know, you could not sue someone for doing a half assed job. 2. I'm not even sure how you are using the word "illegal" here. AFAIK there is no provisions in crimin…
> a half assed job
A judge would automatically throw out the case if this was the argument for suing an employee. The reasoning being, if you continued to pay the employee during the term of their employment, and you knew that the employee was not performing based on some KPI or some yard stick, you would issue warning to the employee to improve their performance, or you would fire the employee on the spot. Continuing keep an underperforming employee is giving tactic consent that their work is reasonably acceptable because if it wasn't, you would start disciplinary action or cease their employment.
Threating a employee with coercive threats (such as threats of legal action) is going to land the business into hot water in any modern society.