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Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

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Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#61

Post by aurareturn »

olliebrkr wrote: post #54
dgroshev wrote: post #41

I suspect the latter part is so commonplace that many technologists don't even think twice about it. > Unilaterally imposing unfair trading conditions on other online classified ads service providers who advertise on Meta's platforms, in particular on its very popular social networks Facebook and Instagram. This allows Meta to use ads-related data generated by other advertisers for the sole benefit of Facebook Market…

It's 100% predatory. I hope we will see similar cases brought against Amazon soon (if they haven't been already). The fact that so many companies are dependent on selling on Amazon, yet Amazon also sells their own products, is ludicrous. - AcmeShop sells 3d printers and sell on Amazon - Amazon sees these printers are selling well - Amazon buys/creates their own 3d printer brand - Amazon gives their own products prefe…

Is Amazon able to make a better value 3d printer?

If yes, seems like consumers win?

If no, then people will lose trust on Amazon over time and will use other shopping platforms. So Amazon is basically trading short-term profit for long-term profit.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#62

Post by philjohn »

aurareturn wrote: post #39
Etheryte wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what the issue is about. The problem is that Meta is giving preference to their own ads over third party ads, not that the platforms reference one another.

The posted article is light on details. Is there another source that backs your statement?

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#63

Post by jsnell »

ancorevard wrote: post #28

Will future tech companies bother making their products available in the EU? Will it be worth it, or is just too big of a risk with uncertain outcomes?

It's funny that there are two common and opposite narratives in HN comments for EU fines on tech companies. The is to claim that the fines are far too small, and the companies will happily just continue breaking the laws and treat the fines as a cost of doing business. The other is that the fines are so impractically huge that they're going to drive the companies out of the EU entirely.

Both narratives are just nonsense. The goal of the fines is to change product behavior immediately, and to act as a deterrent for illegal product changes in the future. The fines seem pretty well calibrated for that. $1 billion is real money even to Meta. They can't afford to ignore this and other similar issues, and will need to at least make an effort that looks like good faith enough to avoid the fines ratcheting up higher.

But on the other hand, Meta probably makes on the order of $10 billion / year in profit in the EU. They're not about to leave. Like, even in that one year (2018?) when Google ended up adding a separate line item for EU antitrust fines into their financial statements there was no chance they'd leave.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#64

Post by bantunes »

ancorevard wrote: post #28

Will future tech companies bother making their products available in the EU? Will it be worth it, or is just too big of a risk with uncertain outcomes?

Telling that you think this is happening just because their products are available in the EU and not because they were "acting in a way that gave it a significant advantage over competitors" as the EU claims.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#65

Post by aurareturn »

philjohn wrote: post #62
aurareturn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The posted article is light on details. Is there another source that backs your statement?

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...

I don't see how that link clarifies things.

  Tying its online classified ads service Facebook Marketplace to its personal social network Facebook. This means that all Facebook users automatically have access and get regularly exposed to Facebook Marketplace whether they want it or not. The Commission found that competitors of Facebook Marketplace may be foreclosed as the tie gives Facebook Marketplace a substantial distribution advantage which competitors cannot match.
This is exactly what we're talking about. EU is basically saying that Facebook.com, just by having a marketplace feature is already breaking the law.

  Unilaterally imposing unfair trading conditions on other online classified ads service providers who advertise on Meta's platforms, in particular on its very popular social networks Facebook and Instagram. This allows Meta to use ads-related data generated by other advertisers for the sole benefit of Facebook Marketplace.
Light on details.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#66

Post by chung8123 »

Johanx64 wrote: post #53
ancorevard wrote: post #28

Will future tech companies bother making their products available in the EU? Will it be worth it, or is just too big of a risk with uncertain outcomes?

Except for VR headsets, I reject the notion that facebook/meta is a "tech" company.

They have done a ton of advancement in AI. They also have to have the infrastructure to handle so many users. I feel like they fall squarely in the tech company world.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#67

Post by threeseed »

dgroshev wrote: post #41

I suspect the latter part is so commonplace that many technologists don't even think twice about it. > Unilaterally imposing unfair trading conditions on other online classified ads service providers who advertise on Meta's platforms, in particular on its very popular social networks Facebook and Instagram. This allows Meta to use ads-related data generated by other advertisers for the sole benefit of Facebook Market…

But this is how online advertising works.

AcmeShop can equally run ads on other companies 3D printers on Facebook.

And they can equally run ads on Google about Facebook Marketplace.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#68

Post by sofixa »

diogofranco wrote: post #57
olliebrkr wrote: post #45

It surprises me how many people here are against this decision, and expressing sentiment that this is bad for the EU tech scene. Meta has been fined because they employed tactics to undermine competition and persistently employ anti-competitive tactics. Why is it wrong for the EU to force companies to obey it's laws and act in the best interest of it's inhabitants? The companies being targeted are some of the biggest…

Do you live in the EU? From where I stand I mostly got cookie banners, can't get to Google maps or flights from Google search, get AI launches 6 months after the rest of the world if at all etc.. Not yet feeling all the consumer benefits

Your pictures weren't used to train AI models.

Facebook can no longer create shadow profiles for people who aren't on it and thus can't consent.

You can ask any company to tell you all they know about you, and delete it (with some small regulatory exceptions).

You don't have 50 different chargers in your home.

And a million other things.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#69

Post by threeseed »

olliebrkr wrote: post #58
crazygringo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify the abusive part? In your scenario, Alice already decided not to buy anything from AcmeShop. Even if AcmeShop advertised on Facebook it wouldn't have changed her behavior. She got a better deal on Facebook Marketplace. And she was already visiting Facebook and the Marketplace is already a single click. I don't see the abusive or predatory part. It seems like Facebook Marketplace just offered a superio…

It's one sided. Facebook have all the data for how AcmeShop's products are selling. They are free to use this information to undercut AcmeShop's products with data AcmeShop does not have on Facebook. Yes, it's a better deal on the face of it, but as soon as AcmeShop goes out of business, competition is gone and Facebook can charge whatever they want. And we all know from the US markets that low to no competition does…

None of this makes any sense.

Facebook Marketplace is a marketplace. They don't control the products that are being advertised. All they can control is the weighting of ads they run on certain products e.g. "AirPods are popular, increase ad spend to 20% of total".

But they could do this by simply optimising for ROAS just like every other company does.

If Facebook is sharing AcmeShop data with Marketplace, and it's a very big if, it would still be of almost no value.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#70

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #12

Official release: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...

What they were found guilty of (was this even a trial?) seems like could apply to literally any business that participates in two markets.

>Tying its online classified ads service Facebook Marketplace to its personal social network Facebook. This means that all Facebook users automatically have access and get regularly exposed to Facebook Marketplace whether they want it or not.

You can accuse almost anything of that, it's like business 101. The European grocery store chains (aldi/lidl) tend to have a literal random shit aisle that exists to capitalize on this, and has for years.

And I always hate laws that seemingly make everyone guilty, and are going to inevitably come down to selective enforcement.

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