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ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

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Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#11

Post by jccalhoun »

aristus wrote: post #2

You can like the work but hate the jerk. The real question comes when you decide whether to financially support a jerk's work.

I agree. We all make our own decisions. I won't say someone is wrong for making a different decision. For me, there are people who's product I won't use because they are a jerk and I don't want to contribute to their financial success. But if that same jerk was one of the creators of a commonly used language that is ubiquitous I won't avoid it because that person doesn't financially benefit from it.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#12

Post by cmiller1 »

jccalhoun wrote: post #10

I'm very glad there is a transcript so I didn't have to listen to it. It seems like in this case ReiserFS is being deprecated and removed because it is no longer used and not because of who the creator is? https://www.phoronix.com/news/ReiserFS-Deprecate-Remove-2025 If so, then this isn't really about separating the art from the artist?

My takeaway was that Han's problems were intrinsically tied to the both the architecture and code in ways that made it difficult for others to contribute and fix. The artist's influence on the art caused its ultimate demise.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#14

Post by mrweasel »

donatj wrote: post #5

Some part of me always assumes people are innocent. I think I just see too much of myself in others and when they commit some act I never would it seems genuinely outside reality. I remember vividly being a very tech-involved twenty year old, extremely excited about Reiser4 when this all came to light and thinking "There's no way he did it! They don't even have a body, they don't even know she is dead" right up until…

> Some dumb part of me that always thinks people are innocent.

You're not alone. Hans Reiser is one of two people where I had the notion that "Why would he do that? That makes no sense." The other one is Peter Madsen (the Danish submarine guy), he had a few month earlier been part of a TV show about find some German WWII u-boat, where he was absolutely brilliant and entertaining.

For ReiserFS a large part of the issue, which is also addressed here, is that there just wasn't that many developers that cared that much for the filesystem. The Namesys developered cared, in large part because they where paid. Obviously they also had bills to pay, so when no one wanted to pay them to work on ReiserFS it just feel apart. We see this with many of the project that thrown into e.g. The Apache Foundation, the code is thrown over the fence, but with no advocates, no developer resources and no money, so the code is just left to rot.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#15

Post by ensignavenger »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #7
baggy_trough wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A jerk is one thing; a murderer is something else.

If a murderer creates a file system/energy source/mouse trap that is effectively better than all of the alternatives, and generates value to the world, what he did in his personal life is effectively moot. There is no ethics problem involved in choosing the best solution to a problem, when that solution exists.

If financially supporting said murderer allows them to continue to possibly murder more, then I would say there is a moral dilemma. Less so when the murderer is in jail and unlikely to ever really benefit from your using said solution.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#16

Post by creshal »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #7
baggy_trough wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A jerk is one thing; a murderer is something else.

If a murderer creates a file system/energy source/mouse trap that is effectively better than all of the alternatives, and generates value to the world, what he did in his personal life is effectively moot. There is no ethics problem involved in choosing the best solution to a problem, when that solution exists.

ReiserFS hasn't been the best solution in a long, long while. Even before the murder case it was often more trouble than it was worth.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#18

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

mrweasel wrote: post #14
donatj wrote: post #5

Some part of me always assumes people are innocent. I think I just see too much of myself in others and when they commit some act I never would it seems genuinely outside reality. I remember vividly being a very tech-involved twenty year old, extremely excited about Reiser4 when this all came to light and thinking "There's no way he did it! They don't even have a body, they don't even know she is dead" right up until…

> Some dumb part of me that always thinks people are innocent. You're not alone. Hans Reiser is one of two people where I had the notion that "Why would he do that? That makes no sense." The other one is Peter Madsen (the Danish submarine guy), he had a few month earlier been part of a TV show about find some German WWII u-boat, where he was absolutely brilliant and entertaining. For ReiserFS a large part of the issu…

Narcissists can be very charming. You don't know the inner lives of most people and it's impossible to judge them by their public persona when it's entirely under their control. Celebrity actors are notable specialists in this area.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#19

Post by RobotToaster »

ensignavenger wrote: post #6
aristus wrote: post #2

You can like the work but hate the jerk. The real question comes when you decide whether to financially support a jerk's work.

So once a jerk artist is dead and can no longer benefit from their work, it becomes easier to consume their art without moral concern?

I guess that would depend on if their kids are jerks?

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#20

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

baggy_trough wrote: post #4
aristus wrote: post #2

You can like the work but hate the jerk. The real question comes when you decide whether to financially support a jerk's work.

A jerk is one thing; a murderer is something else.

There is also such a thing as lobbying for laws that make a lot of people's lives difficult, destroy QALYs, and possibly cause stochastic death.

It's only called "murder" when it's trivial to measure it, see.

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