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Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

forum.manjaro.org

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Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#61

Post by bombela »

sealeck wrote: post #46
Alcatros552 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone). Although EU privac…

Why did MS comply to the EU request on installations outside of the EU?

MS Windows with crowdstrike BSOD'd for American airlines on the American soil afterall.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#62

Post by timbit42 »

talldayo wrote: post #48
nixosbestos wrote: post #27

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

Because Archinstall is scary, even if you could train an elementary-schooler to use it. Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

Isn't EndeavourOS quite a bit better? It's ranked higher on DistroWatch.com and its Visitor Rating is 8.48 compared to Manjaro's 8.07.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#63

Post by jklinger410 »

talldayo wrote: post #48
nixosbestos wrote: post #27

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

Because Archinstall is scary, even if you could train an elementary-schooler to use it. Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

> Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

Lol, if it was harder to use people would use archinstall instead.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#64

Post by jeroenhd »

nixosbestos wrote: post #27

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

Installing Arch is unnecessarily difficult for most people. Manjaro is Arch without all the hassle. All the "cool" people seem to have switched to Manjaro's successor, EndeavourOS, though, which does the same thing but with a rebrand.

I've never had trouble with Manjaro because of anything Manjaro caused. The occasional error when updating because the AUR is ahead of the distro repo is never a problem. The worst problem I've ever caught them on was "forgetting to renew their HTTPS certificate that one time".

Manjaro has a tendency to fork and ship stuff that works well enough. They don't wait for the last two or three years in the long tail of development before general availability. That makes their software rather unstable on some platforms (mobile, Apple ARM) but on the other hand, their software is actually available, not just a tarball and a makefile.

The biggest issue Manjaro brings is the flood of users who don't know what they're talking about coming to forums like Arch Linux trying to solve their instability issues. Once Manjaro fully dies, those people will still exist, they'll just ask about "how to fix libxyz on endeavour" instead of "how to fix libxyz on manjaro".

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#65

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

troupo wrote: post #44
codedokode wrote: post #24

This is so user-hostile. I do not want a spyware in an OS. All telemetry should be opt-in and voluntary. Also, what would be the use of the telemetry? Find a reason to close a bug report with WONTFIX?

Data collection from users used to drive decisions like UI/UX and product development. Because companies were actually interested in how people were using their products. These days, however, I don't trust any telemetry even from the most trusted companies.

You need look no further than your favorite issue tracker. People can be vocally begging for X to be implemented and nothing happens. Why would I think telemetry will change the situation if the PM in charge does not want/care to do it?

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#66

Post by jklinger410 »

codedokode wrote: post #24

This is so user-hostile. I do not want a spyware in an OS. All telemetry should be opt-in and voluntary. Also, what would be the use of the telemetry? Find a reason to close a bug report with WONTFIX?

> The less I know about users of the software I write, the better.

This is one of my favorite completely irrational HN takes that is guaranteed to show up in a thread like this.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#67

Post by ranger_danger »

sealeck wrote: post #46
Alcatros552 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone). Although EU privac…

I don't think a "reasonable person" from the perspective of a court (non-developer, non-technical, end-user) can be expected to know (or even learn) how to compile software in this way, not to mention other downsides it has (like lack of updates and possibility to create new bugs) so I don't think this would be allowed, but it's up to a judge to decide on a case by case basis, not us armchair experts.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#68

Post by ranger_danger »

Nullabillity wrote: post #59
sealeck wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone). Although EU privac…

Consent needs to be freely given; you can't nudge users into it and you can't hold access ransom over it. There's no way what you're suggesting would fly.

I'm not an expert and not on either side, but couldn't a notice like "by agreeing to these terms you allow us to turn on telemetry by default, and you are free to simply not use this software instead" be allowed?

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#69

Post by wongarsu »

sealeck wrote: post #46
Alcatros552 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone). Although EU privac…

"Click yes to consent and continue installation, click no to exit the installer and be redirected to a manual on how to build your own copy" would be in violation of the "consent must be freely given" stipulation of the GDPR.

You are more likely to get a regulator to agree to a version without consent (by minimizing personal data and arguing that your legitimate interest outweighs the weight of the little PII) than getting them to agree to your hostage situation

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#70

Post by talldayo »

jklinger410 wrote: post #63
talldayo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Archinstall is scary, even if you could train an elementary-schooler to use it. Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

> Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin. Lol, if it was harder to use people would use archinstall instead.

I disagree. Archinstall has better disk partitioning tools, more options and a more logical and clear setup menu. The reason people do not use it and prefer Manjaro instead is because it has a GUI, despite the fact that it is objectively a worse interface.

I say this as a former Arch/Manjaro user that had to reinstall his system every 2 months. Once you get over the "text on a screen is scary" phase it's immediately clear how Archinstall is a better installer. To be clear I consider neither OS suitable for daily driving with so many better alternatives out there, but Archinstall is feared by many for practically no reason.

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