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Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

forum.manjaro.org

51–60 of 105 posts

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

Does that only hold if the data collection contains PII and isn't considered necessary for the product? Either way I expect Manjaro's collection would be an issue if its opt-out, just curious how those edges of that law are defined.

I don't know how American data protection laws work in this sense, I've only read up on the GDPR. I don't think American data protection laws are any more strict than their European counterparts though.

You don't need to share this information for Manjaro's software to do its work so it's not necessary for the product. If it's strictly necessary, they may need to inform EU users, but don't need consent.

The edges of the law are pretty sharp. There are a few reasons for which data may be collected without consent, and "I want to see what kind of computers visit my website" isn't one of them. Most of the time, you'll need explicit consent (can't hide consent in the EULA or T&C).

This goes for anything containing PII. And, for the record, an IP address is considered PII in many cases. Pseudonyms also don't protect you.

Even with consent, collecting PII like this also adds a ton of extra overhead (suddenly you need to encrypt your database, serve information/correction/deletion requests from the people you've collected data about, not being allowed to host such data in the US, etc.) to the point I wouldn't even bother collecting this info from EU users. Foreign companies break the GDPR all the time and very few of them ever get fined, but when it comes to communities trying to do the right thing, the GDPR rightfully succeeds in making data collection expensive.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#52
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manjaro doesn't have region specific isos, so it sounds like this will end up being the global policy. However international compliance isn't something every developer is aware of so it may take time before the project is releases a compliant version.

IMO asking for consent (or not collecting data at all) is always the right move, regardless of legal obligations. Might as well just ask everyone for consent.

You don't get any meaningful stats from opt-in. Might as well not collect any data at all.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#53

Its simply illegal in many countries to make an opt-out. For such data comming from your OS you need an OPT-IN!

Is it though? Microsoft .NET has telemetry that you always have to opt out always. Dark patterns like this setting not sticking but being overridden after an update, and of course the shell command that you kinda have to google each time, where you set a parameter to "1" and get no verification that you have indeed successfully disabled telemetry come with the territory (of software vendors not respecting the user much)

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone). Although EU privac…

I don't know the law, but "build it yourself lol" is hardly easy, especially for software that needs to be constantly updated for security.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#55

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

Because Archinstall is scary, even if you could train an elementary-schooler to use it. Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

Archinstall fckd up my EFI partition for dual-boot. Had to reinstall windows. It was probably my fault, but Manjaro just worked first time.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used No, you don't. It is my computer, not yours.

And it's their software, not yours. They are free to require telemetry if they choose to do so. You're also free not to use their software if you don't like it. FWIW, I think it should be opt-in by default, but I think it's reasonable (aside from adhering to necessary privacy laws) for a project to choose the policy they want.

> And it's their software, not yours.

Arguably, the point of open source software (or at least GPL licensed software) is that the owner of the hardware gets to "own" the software and can do what they like with it.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#58

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

Because Archinstall is scary, even if you could train an elementary-schooler to use it. Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

I first used Arch over ten years ago and nobody told me about archinstall until a few weeks ago! I was using Ubuntu out of laziness because I was tired of manually installing Arch every time I got a new machine (until now, I use Arch (again, btw)).

I wonder how many Manjaro users are like me, and just don't realize that Arch ships an installer now.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#59
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone). Although EU privac…

Consent needs to be freely given; you can't nudge users into it and you can't hold access ransom over it. There's no way what you're suggesting would fly.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#60

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

I used to use vanilla Arch. I really liked it, didn't mind the install process, and was reasonably happy with package stability. But there were a couple times when Arch's bleeding edge rolling package releases caused issues for me. I tried Manjaro partly because they update packages after a bit more testing, and I've never had any issues like that with them. I'm ok with being a month or two behind Arch in exchange for more stability. Now I'm thinking of going back to Arch tho...
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