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Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

forum.manjaro.org

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Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#41

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

Retr0id wrote: post #18

The less I know about users of the software I write, the better. > we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used by so many people around the world in order to show that the project has a future and also to plan for that future. Charitably, this implies they want to plan around things like infrastructure scaling. Why can't they just look at present demands on their infrastructure? (i.e. why bother with a…

I would have thought they'd find details on different architectures or specific chips of more interest. Personally, I don't mind allowing telemetry to open source projects, but it should always by opt-in rather than by default.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#42

Post by protonbob »

jeroenhd wrote: post #35
hx8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manjaro doesn't have region specific isos, so it sounds like this will end up being the global policy. However international compliance isn't something every developer is aware of so it may take time before the project is releases a compliant version.

IMO asking for consent (or not collecting data at all) is always the right move, regardless of legal obligations. Might as well just ask everyone for consent.

This is the morally correct thing to do but it does result in selection bias for any statistics gathered. It's hard to figure out a way to get good data but users rights must be respected.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#43

Post by codedokode »

_heimdall wrote: post #31
codedokode wrote: post #24

This is so user-hostile. I do not want a spyware in an OS. All telemetry should be opt-in and voluntary. Also, what would be the use of the telemetry? Find a reason to close a bug report with WONTFIX?

I agree it should always be opt-in, but there are plenty of reasons this data could help them make Majaro better. Their install process likely gives them data already on things like user hardware, Intel vs AMD for example. Telemetry could help find performance issues though, like if one processor type is always slow to boot or if AMD graphics cards have frame rate issues with certain tasks.

> but there are plenty of reasons this data could help them make Majaro better

Then they should ask for a permission first.

> Telemetry could help find performance issues though

You don't need to have telemetry enabled for everyone, just find volunteers who are interested in contributing data, or make a performance test app and let users submit the report.

Also, as I understand, they don't collect framerate in current version.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#44

Post by troupo »

codedokode wrote: post #24

This is so user-hostile. I do not want a spyware in an OS. All telemetry should be opt-in and voluntary. Also, what would be the use of the telemetry? Find a reason to close a bug report with WONTFIX?

Data collection from users used to drive decisions like UI/UX and product development. Because companies were actually interested in how people were using their products.

These days, however, I don't trust any telemetry even from the most trusted companies.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#45

Post by michaelmior »

codedokode wrote: post #29
Retr0id wrote: post #18

The less I know about users of the software I write, the better. > we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used by so many people around the world in order to show that the project has a future and also to plan for that future. Charitably, this implies they want to plan around things like infrastructure scaling. Why can't they just look at present demands on their infrastructure? (i.e. why bother with a…

> we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used No, you don't. It is my computer, not yours.

And it's their software, not yours. They are free to require telemetry if they choose to do so. You're also free not to use their software if you don't like it.

FWIW, I think it should be opt-in by default, but I think it's reasonable (aside from adhering to necessary privacy laws) for a project to choose the policy they want.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#46

Post by sealeck »

Alcatros552 wrote: post #14
jeroenhd wrote: post #7

Based on this thread, it seems like the initial idea was 'just enable it by default and let people disable it' but that quickly changed after the first objections came in. Whatever step the proposal is in right now seems to be focused on making a system to gather telemetry first, I can't see any definitive decision on opt-in vs opt-out (though opt-in through the installer/welcome screen seems to be the best solution…

Asking for it and not enable it by default is the only way to abide by European and South American Data Protection laws..

My understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that under European data protection law the important thing is to obtain user consent for this; I think there's a very reasonable argument that informing the user that you collect telemetry and that if they wish to avoid this they should just build their own copy of the software (which provides a very easy to access opt out which should satisfy everyone).

Although EU privacy and technology regulation is generally pretty ok, this seems to be one of those cases where their lack of technical skill or knowledge really shines through (other examples include the endless cookie banners and https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/07/22/microsoft-says-eu-t...)

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#47

Post by dmitrygr »

protonbob wrote: post #42
jeroenhd wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO asking for consent (or not collecting data at all) is always the right move, regardless of legal obligations. Might as well just ask everyone for consent.

This is the morally correct thing to do but it does result in selection bias for any statistics gathered. It's hard to figure out a way to get good data but users rights must be respected.

Somehow, before the wide availability of constantly connected Internet, software got made. Perhaps constantly collecting data on your users is not required after all.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#48

Post by talldayo »

nixosbestos wrote: post #27

I will never, ever understand how Manjaro has the audience it has, including SBC manufacturers, etc. They don't work with the community particularly well, have a horrible, awful track record of distro stewardship. And now this.

Because Archinstall is scary, even if you could train an elementary-schooler to use it. Manjaro just repackages the same thing with a harder-to-use and more confusing GUI which people are more willing to give a spin.

Re: Manjaro Linux prepares to enable telemetry by default

#49

Post by frankjr »

Retr0id wrote: post #18

The less I know about users of the software I write, the better. > we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used by so many people around the world in order to show that the project has a future and also to plan for that future. Charitably, this implies they want to plan around things like infrastructure scaling. Why can't they just look at present demands on their infrastructure? (i.e. why bother with a…

> The Manjaro project is backed by Manjaro GmbH & Co. KG, an open source driven company.

I'm guessing it's more likely they are looking for investments and need to show some credible numbers.

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