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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#241

Post by whywhywhywhy »

stego-tech wrote: post #118
impish9208 wrote: post #80

From the WSJ’s reporting on this: > Most employees in the tech union receive pay of more than $100,000, and average compensation, including bonus and restricted stock units, is $190,000, according to a Times spokeswoman. That figure is an average of $40,000 more than members of the Times’s journalist union, she said. > Times leaders have also bristled at the nature of some of the guild’s requests. The union previousl…

When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…

> I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s

Yeah but if they're remote they can live in cheaper parts of the country so the 100K+ range of inner expensive cities is less justified and they're competing on a country wide market.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#242

Post by cbhl »

gruez wrote: post #146
stego-tech wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…

>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

The more I stare at this the more I think that using official inflation numbers / using the official CPI is wrong -- these baskets combine recreation and technology being nearly -50% (TVs can be had today for $300, whereas they used to cost $500 in 1995 dollars), assume you only buy new cars (only up ~25% since 2000, but used cars are now almost as expensive as new whereas they used to be available for half the price or less), and underweight housing (basically doubled since 2000, worse if you need to move to a HCOL major urban center for employment).

If you are a healthy person living frugally then I think the inflation in your personal basket of goods is actually higher than the fed numbers would dictate (esp for rent and housing).

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#243

Post by miltonlost »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #161

Have devs at any of the large tech companies ever tried to unionize? If not, why not?

Grindr devs did ("large"). Announced intention to unionize in July of 2023. In August 2023, the gay republican CEO then made a RTO requirement to force all of engineering to Chicago, after hiring everyone as remote first for years. But designers and project managers would be forced to move to LA.

The union filed an unfair labor practice with the NLRB, but that process has dragged for over a year, even after the union successfully won their vote AFTER the purge.

Why don't workers unionize? Because management can fire them right away with repurcussions only after years, if that, and even then, the repurcussions aren't to the CEO who broke the law. Breaking labor laws should put executives in prison, but noooo, instead penalties are paid by the company and the CEO's move to another company to do the same illegal shit.

The government agencies must move faster if they want to protect workers. Delays only help management, who still get salaries throughout and are never actually punished or face any negative consequences.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3mq4y/grindr-unlawfully-pur...

https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/grindr-workers-united-cw...

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#244

Post by consteval »

vijucat wrote: post #47
bwestergard wrote: post #3

I am also a member of the union at NPR, on the subway headed to the picket line in solidarity right now. Happy to answer any questions. I encourage everyone to respect the picket line and get your news elsewhere until the workers get a deal. The Times Workers are holding the line against arbitrary return to office mandates and for Just Cause protections. The vast majority of HN consists of developers, designers, QA,…

Genuine question: what prevents the NYT from offshoring these jobs if they can be done from home? I feel for you, as a fellow worker, but unless there is something hyper-local about the job such as regulatory requirements or trust issues with IP protection, the jobs will go to the ones who work hard without complaining too much.

It's fairly difficult to do American news, centered around American politics and American culture, from not-America. This, at least, applies to editors and journalists. But for tech, I'd imagine they need quite a bit of context too.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#245

Post by brandall10 »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #147
impish9208 wrote: post #80

From the WSJ’s reporting on this: > Most employees in the tech union receive pay of more than $100,000, and average compensation, including bonus and restricted stock units, is $190,000, according to a Times spokeswoman. That figure is an average of $40,000 more than members of the Times’s journalist union, she said. > Times leaders have also bristled at the nature of some of the guild’s requests. The union previousl…

People will laugh at it, but pet bereavement should absolutely be a thing. The saddest I've ever been in my life was when my dog died. Perhaps seven days is a bit much, but when you go to the bargaining table you don't start with what you want, you start past that point then negotiate down.

Same. My boy pug dying in 2019 was so distressful that I was coughing up blood the following morning. My father had a massive heart attack a couple months later and I was still numb to the point where I couldn't process it emotionally.

For some, esp. those who choose to be childless, a relationship like that is probably the closest we'll come.

I was happy the startup I worked at during that time allowed me to take a week off as sick pay... sent flowers with a handwritten note from our HR leader the following morning, but I opted to come back after a couple days as I needed to take my mind off things.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#246

Post by Manuel_D »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #161

Have devs at any of the large tech companies ever tried to unionize? If not, why not?

I think Boeing developers might be part of their engineers union.

Tech companies tend not to unionize, because most developers don't see net gain to be had from unionizing. Most unions end up serving the interest of the union instead of the company, and enact things like seniority based pay and promotion. There's just too much incentive to cater towards interest of mediocre employees in a union model.

Another big factor in software development is that the jobs are comfortable and pay very well. So lots of people would happily apply to the job. IIRC, it's something like a 40:1 ratio of applicants to offers at big tech companies.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#248

Post by miltonlost »

Manuel_D wrote: post #246
insane_dreamer wrote: post #161

Have devs at any of the large tech companies ever tried to unionize? If not, why not?

I think Boeing developers might be part of their engineers union. Tech companies tend not to unionize, because most developers don't see net gain to be had from unionizing. Most unions end up serving the interest of the union instead of the company, and enact things like seniority based pay and promotion. There's just too much incentive to cater towards interest of mediocre employees in a union model. Another big fac…

[flagged]

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#249

Post by consteval »

francisofascii wrote: post #77
meibo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what strikes are by definition, yes. It doesn't just seem like it. There is no other weapon workers can wield if they don't have a legal basis to make leadership meet their demands. Obviously this can backfire in countries that don't have good union law and if you are too replaceable (hello AI).

Except this is legal. Extortion is typically not.

This isn't Extortion because there's no gun to your head saying you HAVE to provide labor. At least in most industries. If I choose not to help you, I'm not extorting anything - you're free to find someone else. If you can't, and I'm your only option, that's still your problem, not mine.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#250

Post by interludead »

stego-tech wrote: post #118
impish9208 wrote: post #80

From the WSJ’s reporting on this: > Most employees in the tech union receive pay of more than $100,000, and average compensation, including bonus and restricted stock units, is $190,000, according to a Times spokeswoman. That figure is an average of $40,000 more than members of the Times’s journalist union, she said. > Times leaders have also bristled at the nature of some of the guild’s requests. The union previousl…

When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…

You're absolutely right. Purchasing power has shifted in just a couple of decades
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