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ChatGPT Search

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Re: ChatGPT Search

#241
Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm?

The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever.

Combining two broken systems - compromised search engines and unreliable LLMs - seems unlikely to yield that vision. Legacy, ad-based search, has devolved into a wasteland of misaligned incentives, conflict of interest and prolifirated the web full of content farms optimized for ads and algos instead of humans.

Path forward requires solving the core challenge: actually surfacing the content people want to see, not what intermiediaries want them to see - which means a different business model in seach, where there are no intermediaries. I do not see a way around this. Advancing models without advancing search is like having a michelin star chef work with spoiled ingredients.

I am cautiously optimistic we will eventually get there, but boy, we will need a fundamentally different setup in terms of incentives involved in information consumption, both in tech and society.

[1] https://blog.kagi.com/age-pagerank-over

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0

Re: ChatGPT Search

#242
What’s the benefit for websites to allow OpenAI/Microsoft to scrape and republish all their content without sending traffic back to them? It seems like these type of “search engines” will just get blocked in the short term.

Longer term, it seems what will be left is “AI Optimized” content, which turns LLM search engines into shills for advertisers. Or these new search engines will have to compensate content producers somehow.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#243

https://x.com/sahir2k/status/1852038475606036577 > how tf is it reading private repos ?!

It was also indexed by Bing.

I usually assume good faith, but in this particular case, I believe the chance that this repo was public before and the author just changed it to private to bait attention is far higher than that Bing/ChatGPT can actually read private repo on GitHub.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#245
post #183

If the current iteration of search engines are producing garbage results (due to an influx of garbage + SEO gaming their ranking systems) and LLMs are producing inaccurate results without any clear method proposed to correct them, why would combining the two systems not also produce garbage? The problem I see with search is that the input is deeply hostile to what the consumers of search want. If the LLM's are partic…

Garbage-ness of search results is not binary, the right question is: can LLMs improve the quality of search results? But sure, it won't end the cat and mouse game.

The question is what is the business model and who pays for it, that determines how much advertising you’re getting. It is not clear if OpenAI could compete in Ad-supported search. So maybe OpenAI is trying to do the basic research, outcompete the Bing research group at Microsoft and then serve as an engine for Bing. Alternatively they could be just improving the ability of LLMs to do search, targeting future uses in agentic applications.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#246
post #172
post #142

Genuine question: is there a present or planned value proposition for people like me who already have decent search skills? Or are these really for children/elders who (without making any normative claim about whether this is a good thing or not) can't be arsed to perform searches themselves? Does someone else have good search skills but mingle traditional search engines with LLMs anyways? Why? I use LLMs every day b…

I dunno, I'm not exactly on the AI bandwagon, but search is the one place where I use (and see others using) chatgpt all the time. The fact that Google search has been getting worse for a decade probably helps, but better search -- consistently done, without ads or cruft -- would be worth a few bucks every month for me. I agree that you can't TRUST them, but half the links regular search turns up are also garbage, so…

Same, but, until recently, I've been using Microsoft's Co-Pilot because for the longest time it did exactly what this new "search" feature added to ChatGPT: it produced a list of source material and links to reference the LLM's output against. It was often instrumental for me and I did begin to use it as a search engine considering how polluted a lot of first-search results have become with spam and empty, generated content.

Oddly, Microsoft recently changed the search version of Copilot to remove all the links to source material. Now it's like talking to an annoying growth-stage-startup middle manager in every way, including the inability to back up their assertions and a propensity to use phrases like "anyway, let's try to keep things moving".

Happy to see this feature set added into ChatGPT – particularly when I'm looking for academic research in/on a subject I'm not familiar with.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#248
post #183

If the current iteration of search engines are producing garbage results (due to an influx of garbage + SEO gaming their ranking systems) and LLMs are producing inaccurate results without any clear method proposed to correct them, why would combining the two systems not also produce garbage? The problem I see with search is that the input is deeply hostile to what the consumers of search want. If the LLM's are partic…

If I can pretty quickly tell a site is SEO spam, so should the LLM, no? Of course that would just start a new round in the SEO arms race, but could work for a while.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#249
post #220
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SEO spam is always going to focus on the biggest market, and by doing so they can be completely transparent and obvious to whoever they're not trying to fool. I'd assume right now the SEO target is still mainly Google rather than ChatGPT, but that's only an "I recon" not a citation. If and when ChatGPT does become the main target for SEO spam, then Googling may start giving good results again.

Wouldn't it be "I reckon"? :-)

D'oh, yes. :)

Re: ChatGPT Search

#250
I just checked, there are a lot of topics it will refuse to generate search results for.

Sure normal search is policed too, but usually not based on moral judgments but on legal necessities.

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