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Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

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Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#61

Post by Robin_Message »

njharman wrote: post #59
adaml_623 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform. It's one of those funny things that people never see…

If there were multiple bars there would be ones specializing in douchebags. Carrion and his ilk would never face permanent disbarment.

The courts could presumably bar the douchebag bar.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#62

Post by SwellJoe »

usea wrote: post #58
adaml_623 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform. It's one of those funny things that people never see…

Exactly where would the pressure for a bar-competitor to clean up come from? Assuming their income comes from applicants and membership fees, wouldn't they want to let in as many people as the inevitable regulations allow?

And what makes you believe the one monopoly bar association doesn't have the same market pressure to let as many people in as possible? They are also funded through membership dues, and have no public or government oversight.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#63

Post by usea »

SwellJoe wrote: post #62
usea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly where would the pressure for a bar-competitor to clean up come from? Assuming their income comes from applicants and membership fees, wouldn't they want to let in as many people as the inevitable regulations allow?

And what makes you believe the one monopoly bar association doesn't have the same market pressure to let as many people in as possible? They are also funded through membership dues, and have no public or government oversight.

Nothing. I never asserted as much. I'm disagreeing with the claim that more associations create a pressure to "clean up." I can see no source for that pressure so I'd like to know what the person meant.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#64

Post by unreal37 »

beedogs wrote: post #31

I'm guessing he's about to be disbarred again.

Doubtful. This is not really "abuse of the legal system". There are people who have filed thousands of frivolous lawsuits over a period of years, and that is abuse of the legal system. One lawsuit that was dropped a few days later is not abuse.

He will, however, have trouble being taken seriously as a lawyer.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#65

Post by SwellJoe »

usea wrote: post #63
SwellJoe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what makes you believe the one monopoly bar association doesn't have the same market pressure to let as many people in as possible? They are also funded through membership dues, and have no public or government oversight.

Nothing. I never asserted as much. I'm disagreeing with the claim that more associations create a pressure to "clean up." I can see no source for that pressure so I'd like to know what the person meant.

Cool. I agree with you. There isn't very strong pressure to play nice in the current system...what pressure there is comes from judges, who often have been practicing lawyers and may be again in the future (or they may be hired by the bar association itself), so they may be inclined to keep the status quo if it is economically beneficial to them. Competition probably wouldn't put any additional pressure on this, though it might, if the higher standards led to some sort of better economic outcome for the membership. But, I don't see how that would necessarily come to pass given the incentives to play dirty.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#66

Post by adaml_623 »

usea wrote: post #58
adaml_623 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform. It's one of those funny things that people never see…

Exactly where would the pressure for a bar-competitor to clean up come from? Assuming their income comes from applicants and membership fees, wouldn't they want to let in as many people as the inevitable regulations allow?

Slow reply so you may never see this. But you raise a very good point. As do the other people who replied.

* If a company misbehaves then people can boycott it and/or protest against it. It can be punished in a way that affects it's competitiveness. Public pressure can't be applied in the same way to an organisation without competition.

* If we had multiple bar associations then hypothetically certain bars would preferentially attract good lawyers and others would attract bad. Good lawyers would transfer from a bad bar to a good bar (Please excuse simplistic use of good/bad). So there would indeed need to be an overreaching feedback mechanism that would punish a 'bad' bar association full of bad but cheap lawyers.

I suppose a simplistic solution could be:

* Enforcing multiple bar associations that are not allowed more than (say) 15% of the total number of lawyers

* A mechanism for banning any of these associations if they don't keep there members in check.

A thought just jumped into my head that the Bar Association and the AMA are essentially organisations that are, 'Too Big to Fail'. If you (The public through your elected reps) can't punish something then you can't control it or force it to enforce standards.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#67

Post by usea »

adaml_623 wrote: post #66
usea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly where would the pressure for a bar-competitor to clean up come from? Assuming their income comes from applicants and membership fees, wouldn't they want to let in as many people as the inevitable regulations allow?

Slow reply so you may never see this. But you raise a very good point. As do the other people who replied. * If a company misbehaves then people can boycott it and/or protest against it. It can be punished in a way that affects it's competitiveness. Public pressure can't be applied in the same way to an organisation without competition. * If we had multiple bar associations then hypothetically certain bars would pref…

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think your reasons make a lot of sense. Potentially, some associations get known as "the good ones" and then they're more competitive than the others.

Ultimately though, it comes down to the laws/regulations. If they leave room for an association that doesn't care about its reputation, the lawyers who would be kicked out of the reputable associations will simply transfer to it and nothing is solved.

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