Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 67 posts

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#51

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

masklinn wrote: post #45
Xylakant wrote: post #40

While this end is certainly favorable for Inman, I'd have preferred if this was decided in court. This way Carreon can pretend that he had to abandon his just campaign under pressure of the savage hordes of the Internet and try again with a softer target than Inman. If he had been thrown out of court with a clear statement, things would look different.

> This way Carreon can pretend that he had to abandon his just campaign under pressure of the savage hordes of the Internet and try again with a softer target than Inman. He's actually claiming he won, and essentially that it's thanks to him the money went to the charities and Inman did not take a picture of it. Also, because he dismissed his own suit he can re-file at will later on.

Yep.

Mr Carreon has a history of actions that could be considered frivolous, antisocial or abusive. It is unlikely that his character has suddenly changed, so it's quite possible that he will behave in the same way again.

(I've said the same thing elsewhere, but I used more cuss-words)

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#52

Post by vijayr »

This is sad. It would have been much better if it had gone to court, with carreon losing the case, and made to pay the legal fees to Inman, and probably a fine for wasting court's time.

At least, the charities will get the money - for all the drama and time wasted, something good came out of it

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#53

Post by Xylakant »

scott_w wrote: post #42
Xylakant wrote: post #40

While this end is certainly favorable for Inman, I'd have preferred if this was decided in court. This way Carreon can pretend that he had to abandon his just campaign under pressure of the savage hordes of the Internet and try again with a softer target than Inman. If he had been thrown out of court with a clear statement, things would look different.

A similar situation occurred in the UK, with a legal firm sending out extortion letters threatening to take people to court for copyright infringement. A number replied demanding their day in court and, in the same way, the complainant withdrew the case. However, the judge in the case refused the application and demanded they come to court, so he could enforce judgement, and punish the complainant for filing a frivol…

It's a similar tactic to the one often employed by banks and insurances in germany. They pretend that they are not liable, and every time someone sues and things start looking bad, they settle out of court to prevent a lost case. Keeps the stats clean.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#54

Post by adaml_623 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #16
mkr-hn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)

It took years for anyone to take responsibility for allowing him to continue to practice and abuse the system, and he was famous for trolling the legal system. That tells me the bar needs some serious reform.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform.

It's one of those funny things that people never seem to notice. We believe in competition and a marketplace but look past the obvious monopolies!

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#56

Post by SwellJoe »

adaml_623 wrote: post #54
SwellJoe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took years for anyone to take responsibility for allowing him to continue to practice and abuse the system, and he was famous for trolling the legal system. That tells me the bar needs some serious reform.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform. It's one of those funny things that people never see…

I talked to some folks recently who oppose the requirement that one be bar-certified in order to represent someone in court...i.e., they believe you should be able to bring your friend, who watches a lot of Law and Order or something, to court with you as a representative. The more I think about it, the less crazy it sounds. You can already represent yourself in court; why shouldn't you be able to bring some help that doesn't cost $500/hour? And, it wasn't always that way in the US; the bar association pulled some strings and made it happen (conveniently, most politicians and judges are also lawyers, so they're possibly the most powerful special interest in the country).

I dunno if this is the only way to solve the problem...but, right now, our legal system strongly favors the wealthy (this can be seen in convictions and sentences of rich folks vs. poor folks). Some of the disparity is legislative (i.e. cocaine possession having a vastly shorter sentence than crack), but a lot of it is simply in the difference in quality of representation.

Not to mention that when it comes to lawsuits, only rich people have the money to play at those games. Which may be why the worst polluters always seem to end up in the backyards of poor people. Rich people would sue them out of existence. Poor people have no recourse, unless some ambulance chaser sees an opportunity for a class action suit (where he'll make millions and the people affected will get a few measly bucks). I dunno if removing the bar as an impediment to representing someone in court would solve this problem (probably wouldn't; there are lots of things stacked against poor people in our court system, not just the lack of affordable representation), but it might be a start.

Whew...I didn't know I had such strong feelings on this issue until I started ranting about it. I guess that's how a lot of folks are...never thinking about the bar (or the medical association), or what unintended consequences it might have.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#57

Post by masklinn »

acabal wrote: post #46

How is Carreon going to be punished? It's great that Inman won, but he won not in small part because he's a famous personality that helped gather internet rage--and then the EFF--to his side. But what if he was a nobody? EFF would have very likely told him they were too busy, Carreon would have pressed on, and lots and lots of hard-earned money would have gone down the drain. It makes me so mad that the legal system…

> How is Carreon going to be punished?

Not, unless Inman decides to sue.

> It's great that Inman won

Inman did not really "win", he did get intimidated in not withdrawing the money (he took a picture of his own money instead) and Carreon filed a "Notice of Voluntary Dismissal" without prejudice (as the court ended up not being involved) so he could always pick it up again later.

And:

> Ars called Carreon to comment and found him declaring the lawsuit a success. "Mission Accomplished," Carreon announced on the phone with Ars.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#58

Post by usea »

adaml_623 wrote: post #54
SwellJoe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took years for anyone to take responsibility for allowing him to continue to practice and abuse the system, and he was famous for trolling the legal system. That tells me the bar needs some serious reform.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform. It's one of those funny things that people never see…

Exactly where would the pressure for a bar-competitor to clean up come from? Assuming their income comes from applicants and membership fees, wouldn't they want to let in as many people as the inevitable regulations allow?

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#59

Post by njharman »

adaml_623 wrote: post #54
SwellJoe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took years for anyone to take responsibility for allowing him to continue to practice and abuse the system, and he was famous for trolling the legal system. That tells me the bar needs some serious reform.

The 'bar' needs competition. It has a monopoly on who is allowed to practice. If there were multiple bars then there would be competitive pressure for them to clean themselves up. The medical associations need this as well. Anywhere there is one accrediting society there should probably be multiple ones. With transparent feedback on how the members of each perform. It's one of those funny things that people never see…

If there were multiple bars there would be ones specializing in douchebags. Carrion and his ilk would never face permanent disbarment.

Re: Charles Carreon Drops Bogus Lawsuit Against The Oatmeal Creator

#60

Post by simcop2387 »

ambler0 wrote: post #7

But as far as we know, he has not (yet) rescinded his threat to sue the person who started the Satirical Charles website, right?

The fun part for him is that even if he does, the Doe in that case has already filed suit against him. It will be difficult/impossible for him to get out of that one without settling.
Post reply on HN