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We're forking Flutter

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Re: We're forking Flutter

#681

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Canonical is contributing to desktop and is using Flutter for a lot of their desktop components now.

Given Canonical's record that is only further reason to stay far away from it.

Canonical is great when they're following established standards, the problem is when they invent in house tech.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#682

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I can appreciate that as a developer, but as a user I don’t particularly care that some company wants to ship identical looking apps on every device under the sun. I would prefer the apps I use to work and behave in a consistent way, using the same platform idioms I am used to. The software available and how it works was a large part of the reason I chose the platform I did. Of course, I recognise that, a. most peopl…

Do you hear people complain that __websites__ have different aesthetics? I used to share your opinion but since the web I think it is great that designers can have original designs and I started to worry about more important things.

The web is interesting because we never had rich components provided by the browser to begin with. Web applications have always had to draw everything but the most basic inputs themselves, and the design of web apps has evolved accordingly.

In an alternate universe, where web apps were embraced by the platform from the start rather than something people had to shoehorn into a document sharing mechanism, and we had rich components built-in, then yes I would probably be annoyed if people insisted on rolling their own versions. After all, I am annoyed when people use a span with a click handler instead of a proper anchor tag, because it usually breaks middle clicking or opening a link in a new tab—a platform convention I have internalised and expect to work.

Note this only applies to web apps, not sites. Much like how I do not have any problem that magazines don’t share a common layout.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#683
post #270

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That is good to hear and hopefully gets fixed. It has been some years now, but I did use flutter for some toy projects and liked using it - I am used to using ReactJS I found there was a lot of transitive knowledge coming from that background. Ultimately what dissuaded me from pursuing it for any bigger projects is a lack of examples of great looking production apps with complex requirements. When I was looking, I wa…

I don't know how to fix the showcase problem. With web apps, it's easy – just scan HTML, deduce what framework is used, and add it to your showcase list. With Flutter mobile/desktop apps it's not possible. And there are zero incentives for developers to send their apps for screenshots. You just ship the release and move on to the next tasks. I also discovered Flutter in 2018, and it kind brought joy into UI programmi…

> With web apps, it's easy – just scan HTML, deduce what framework is used, and add it to your showcase list. With Flutter mobile/desktop apps it's not possible.

Seems like it is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fluttersha...

Re: We're forking Flutter

#684

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Which flutter apps do I likely use?

According to its web site, eBay, New York Times, Square, American Airlines.

Listing eBay and NYT seems pretty misleading when it's actually eBay Motors and NYT Games and not their primary apps.

I can't tell if the same applies to Square or American Airlines but I would not be surprised.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#685

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As someone desperately fighting to keep their company's main product to stay using a native desktop UI, Microsoft makes it real hard. WinUI3 hasn't even officially launched and it already feels like it's on life support. QT is good, but even qt seems to be starting to use a web renderer.

"WinUI3 hasn't even officially launched" ? It officially launched with version 1.0 and it's now on 1.6?

I suppose it was incorrect of me to say it hasn't "officially" launched then. But one would certainly seem to get that impression, considering it's missing major features (data table support?) isn't anywhere near feature parity with either WPF or winforms, and doesn't even have a visual editor (which should be table stakes for a modern 1.0 release from a company as large as Microsoft).

Re: We're forking Flutter

#686

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Is the complete lack of accessibility still the giveaway? Last I looked Flutter was a complete nonstarter for accessibility.

I worked on the GPay flutter rewrite and our standard for accessibility was higher than almost any other app I've seen, and was a significant amount of effort spent on that. What accessibility shortcomings does flutter have?

Google pay was never able to fix the pre-compiled animation rendering issue on iOS where the first transition or animation is always janky and then it gets cached and no longer has jank.

That is quite a non-starter imo

Re: We're forking Flutter

#687
post #676
post #672

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LOL Bolt is a React Native shop. Just Google "bolt react native" they have jobs and articles about their usage but also any library inspector will tell you that.

Nope, one of them is Flutter (I know team PM personally). Which one?

Dude. They're even on the React Native showcase page.

I don't know what to say but you're massively mistaken.

Uber use React Native too BTW. Lots of other big tech companies also, I don't know of any that use Flutter in a big way. Just some toe dipping

Re: We're forking Flutter

#688

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I can’t imagine using Flutter for desktop development if only because like most newer UI frameworks, it’s mobile focused and doesn’t come with important desktop widgets like tableviews/datagrids and treeviews.

Tableviews are pretty niche and tree views mostly get used for files, so I'm fine not having either in apps that aren't about managing lots of data. I like headers and sections more that tables for most things anyway.

Depends on what's being developed, I guess. No tables/trees is probably ok for a lot of lighter end-user sorts of apps but doing without them for many desktop-first apps and utilities would be rough. Desktop file managers, media library apps, and email apps for example would be quite a lot less useful without multi-column tables at the minimum.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#689

Back when I worked on GWT, we had trouble accepting outside contributions because the team had a mandate to support Googlers. That is, much like other libraries and tools at Google, changes could not break google3. This means testing patches against google3 and either changing the patch, or fixing whatever code used it, and these are tasks that no outsider can do. Shepherding these patches is no fun when you have you…

> when you have your own changes to work on that are more important to the team. That part is the killer. Important to the Google Flutter team != important to the wider Flutter community.

Or maybe it’s not important to the community either? Sometimes, a bug is pretty obscure and only important to the person who filed it. People will get annoyed if they aren’t investigated, though.

It’s good to be a little skeptical when people claim to speak for the community just because they’re part of the community. Often it’s not so.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#690
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're referring to the extra frame of latency when scrolling on Android. But then again, I've literally never heard anyone complain about that, I honestly don't think anyone notices, I believe the GitHub issue had to use a slow motion camera to even capture the issue.

Sorry, but do you really develop your software as a professional engineer based on "I heard X from few people"? With all the bias and filtering your brain does for this kind of "metric"?

Do you not? Engineering is a tool for solving human problems. If humans don't have a problem, then there's nothing to solve. Engineering is not the end in itself but the means to an end.
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