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Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

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Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#91

Post by rahoulb »

oacgnol wrote: post #13

A bit of a meta question: As someone who feels like a 'B' or even 'C' at times, what would it take to become an 'A' player? Is it predicated on pure talent alone, hard work, or experience? Even though I know I'm still a junior developer (~1 yr exp), I feel hopeless at times that I'll never approach being 'A' status especially knowing that I have many peers my age that are already far and away better than me. How woul…

Talk about stuff as you learn it (at your local user group or whatever). That way it forces you to consolidate what you are learning - plus you become viewed as an expert by the people who are learning from you (which of course you are, as you are a step ahead of them).

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#92

Post by codeonfire »

ksolanki wrote: post #10

I think there is a lot of talk about hiring an "A" developer, but almost nothing on what makes an A developer an A developer. More likely than not, it a continuum, and that a lot of engineers have the potential to be an A, but don't end up getting there due to one reason or another. It would be great to see some discussion on what environment could one provide that would enable A players to thrive and reach their pot…

it is someone who is working nights and weekends unbeknownst to whoever is grading developers. It's easy to create the rockstar illusion over a short time.

Other times it is money bias. If a dev makes a lot of money for someone they are considered an A developer without regard to ability.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#93

Post by vrishabh »

dabent wrote: post #37
oacgnol wrote: post #13

A bit of a meta question: As someone who feels like a 'B' or even 'C' at times, what would it take to become an 'A' player? Is it predicated on pure talent alone, hard work, or experience? Even though I know I'm still a junior developer (~1 yr exp), I feel hopeless at times that I'll never approach being 'A' status especially knowing that I have many peers my age that are already far and away better than me. How woul…

I believe that the top trait in A players is the same as in the top founders, which is determination [1]. That determination often manifests itself as the desire to understand how something really works, rather than glossing over the details, the drive to learn a new language well enough to use it to implement ideas, to take on the learning curve for a new tool or system, to automate something, or to test their code…

> I believe that the top trait in A players is the same as in the top founders, which is determination [1].

Another important trait in the A players is that they are good procrastinators. Or as pg says it, they procrastinate to do "something more important."

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#94

Post by sigkill »

sliverstorm wrote: post #19
ksolanki wrote: post #10

I think there is a lot of talk about hiring an "A" developer, but almost nothing on what makes an A developer an A developer. More likely than not, it a continuum, and that a lot of engineers have the potential to be an A, but don't end up getting there due to one reason or another. It would be great to see some discussion on what environment could one provide that would enable A players to thrive and reach their pot…

It would be great to see some discussion on what environment could one provide that would enable A players to thrive and reach their potential. Pay them enough, give them an interesting problem, and lock them in a room with a bunch of other A players

Most important don't drown them in office politics or unnecessary paperwork.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#95

Post by AngryParsley »

daeken wrote: post #90
AngryParsley wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right about the disparity applying elsewhere, but I disagree with your example of athletes. Beating an opponent consistently is not the same as beating an opponent by a factor of 50. For example: I'm no sprinter, but Usain Bolt runs less than 2x faster than me. And there are thousands of athletes who are a few percent slower than the best. They don't even get to the Olympic qualifiers. On the other han…

I'd argue that in the case of something like sprinting, looking at it in a linear way isn't going to get you much. I don't know much about it, but it seems to me that every time you cut X seconds off your time, it's that much harder to get down to X 2. If you looked at it from some sort of a logarithmic basis, I find it really unlikely that Usain Bolt is just* 2x faster than you.

(I'm not really sure why I felt the need to write this rant. It was an itch I had to scratch.)

It may surprise you, but healthy adults don't differ much in terms of physical ability. If you measure watts output or steps per second or anything quantifiable, it's going to be less than an order of magnitude difference, never mind a 100x difference.

I can run 100 meters in 15 seconds. That's 6.7 meters per second. Usain Bolt can run 100 meters in 9 seconds. That's 11 meters per second. 11.11/6.67 = 1.67 times faster. If Usain could somehow cut 5 seconds off his time and do a 4-second 100 meter dash, he'd be moving along at 25 meters per second. That isn't quite 4x faster than me. Such a feat would certainly be much more than 4 times as impressive as me running, but it wouldn't be more than 4 times as fast.

If you used some other yardstick, you could come up with some other number. Usain Bolt is the fastest sprinter alive. That makes him one in 7 billion. There are likely millions of faster runners than me. I'm maybe one in 100. 7 billion divided by 100 is 70 million, therefore Usain Bolt is 70 million times better at sprinting than me.

Sound silly? I think so too.

When measuring programming ability, we don't grade on a curve. It doesn't matter how much (or little) effort you had to expend. All that matters is the result and how long it took.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#96

Post by nandemo »

benlakey wrote: post #50
pbreit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. For one, that was said 10 or 15 years ago and things change. Second, talented engineers (like everyone) value a variety of things other than money. Finally, other competencies are becoming as important or more so than raw engineering for a lot of companies.

Agree. Financial compensation is actually often much lower on the list of things software developers value at a company, particularly when they are 'A' players. Solving problems, working with other 'A' players, and stretching ones abilities become more important. You do have to pay competitively though.

I think "you have to pay competitively" is true and pretty much negates the claim that financial compensation is low priority.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#97

Post by jballanc »

ivanvanderbyl wrote: post #87
TimGebhardt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake it 'til you make it. Throw yourself at problems that you think are over your head. If you care and you want to do good work you'll figure out a way to get something done. Especially if you have a good mentor or someone that can guide you to answers to hard questions or take you under their wing. Learn to effectively communicate and then communicate with your peers. You'll never know what you don't know unless yo…

That last bit is crucial - surround yourself with people smarter than you - otherwise you'll spend most of your time solving complex problems in inefficient ways, which could very much work against you.

Yes. A thousands times, yes! Some people find themselves to be the smartest person in the room and think, "I've made it!" Others, in the same situation think, "Time to move on..."

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#98

Post by espeed »

jasonkester wrote: post #73
TimGebhardt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake it 'til you make it. Throw yourself at problems that you think are over your head. If you care and you want to do good work you'll figure out a way to get something done. Especially if you have a good mentor or someone that can guide you to answers to hard questions or take you under their wing. Learn to effectively communicate and then communicate with your peers. You'll never know what you don't know unless yo…

Are you sure "fake it til you make it" is the correct term for this idea? I'm familiar with the term, but usually in a different context. Regardless, you're spot on. My silly anecdote: Back in university I used to play pick-up two's volleyball a couple nights a week. At the other end of that same gym, the school team would practice, occasionally overlapping with the pick-up folks. One day, their practice broke up aro…

Playing up to your opponent's level can happen in tennis too. One of the factors I think might be coming into play, especially in a sport like volleyball or tennis, is that your opponent is directly across from you and their play provides a mental model for you during the game. You can subconsciously mimic what they do, and their actions during the game act as a constant reminder for how to play well.

I noticed this snow skiing too. I had learned to ski when I was four and went multiple times a year every year, but I lived in Texas so it wasn't an everyday event. Then one mogul run I followed directly behind a more advanced skier, mimicking his moves and rhythm, and all of a sudden on that run it clicked -- my skill level shot up several folds.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#99

Post by 4ad »

alexpenny wrote: post #42
MaxGabriel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you or Alex expand on this? I'd especially want to know if this was true on non-white backgrounds.

Yes its especially true for non-white backgrounds. It all has to do with contrast. With black on white we have 100% contrast, if we use dark gray on light gray the contrast becomes say 70%. The lighter the contrast the easier it is on the eyes. Here's a quick example of what it looks like. http://cl.ly/1p103C2z1N220L1W213l

> The lighter the contrast the easier it is on the eyes.

Or not: http://contrastrebellion.com/

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#100

Post by sjwright »

tjmc wrote: post #40
chrischen wrote: post #25

So what do B and C developers do? Not everyone can be in the A tier. Wouldn't a better strategy for society be to focus on extracting maximum value and output from people of all capabilities? Just pay less capable people less, and give them smaller responsibilities.

So what do B and C developers do? I suspect the ones at Apple develop iTunes for Windows

It's funny because it's true.
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