Google Service Drops Support for Opera • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#91

Post by luriel » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:22 AM UTC

recoiledsnake wrote: post #32

When I do web development, I test in Opera at the very end after I have fixed all issues in IE, Firefox, Chrome and Safari and guess what? I never had to make one tweak for Opera. Ever. Opera has almost a religious focus on coding to standards. While I bet there are specific issues with implementation, whatever happened to the concept of coding to the standard and let browsers do their work? Do Blogger features reall…

> This is a throwback to the days of "Best works in IE(TM)".

Exactly, it seems that a whole new generation of web developers have forgotten history.

Is sad that when we thought we had left behind those awful times, and that we had learned the lesson, we have Google kicking us back to the dark ages of the web.

If standards are worth anything, all browsers that follow them should be supported equally.

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#92

Post by ernesth » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:50 AM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #87

Xcelerate wrote: post #5

This whole "supporting browsers" thing should be gone, and very soon. There are specifications that browser makers should follow, and if they are all supporting those specifications, then they well be well-supported. The only differentiator between page rendering among browsers should really be speed. (I believe Opera is actually one of the browsers that adheres most closely to the specs.)

However, Opera scores 338+9 on html5test.com while Chrome gets 414+13.

> Opera scores 338+9

385+9 to be precise (and 400+9 for me).

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#93

Post by yareally » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 7:28 AM UTC

velodrome wrote: post #85

I really want to like opera....it tends to be a memory hog (at least for me) and it tries to do too many things. In any case, if they open sourced the software it might see more adoption. Opera does not take a lot of dev work at all. I do like some of the dev tools (unlike firefox - excluding firebug). I could never get opera to work properly on Google Apps. Lets be honest, it's not like google made an effort to begi…

I think you are confusing Firefox with Opera:

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1032-1008869.html

http://people.opera.com/howcome/2003/2/msn/

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#94

Post by skrebbel » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 8:09 AM UTC

simonw wrote: post #20

sp332 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A user base of 300,000,000 means they can't have less than 4.2% market share, even if the whole population of the earth were online.

I'm pretty sure that number includes opera mini / opera mobile users. I don't know what the numbers for opera desktop are but I'm certain they're a fraction of opera's mobile offerings.

And I bet they count me triple, with Opera on the desktop, Opera Mini on my phone and Opera Mobile on my tablet.

Never believe the marketers, even when they work at awesome companies!

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#95

Post by skrebbel » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 8:19 AM UTC

ippisl wrote: post #58

tomjen3 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why does it have so few users?

Browsers are a "winner take most" market because of website support and extensions. IE and chrome have rich parents, and firefox had much better extension community.

I doubt the extensions have much to do with it. Where Firefox had a vibrant community of people making extensions for their favourite website's search box, Opera added a way to access any site's search box from the address bar. This is just an example - a lot of things that Firefox extensions have been most used for are natively supported in Opera, though typically in a very different way.

I don't think anybody but a particular kind of power user like you or me would chose a browser for its extension community. I think the free firefox ads all over many websites helped more. I mean, at some point, the Dutch Linux user group collected money to pay for a full-page colour Firefox ad in the Netherlands' largest newspaper. From their own pockets! The holy war to promote Firefox was really going strong for quite a while, and only got stilled when the many of the same people decided to switch to Google Chrome because they discovered that speed was more important to them than that whole open source principle they financed that ad for, and that really the ad was against Microsoft / IE and not so much for Firefox.

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#96

Post by andyking » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 8:57 AM UTC

dreamdu5t wrote: post #78

Opera should turn the tables and add "webkit" to their user agent string. Don't just back down Google because they have clout.

Opera has user-agent switching built in. You can just masquerade as Chrome.

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#97

Post by okamiueru » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 8:57 AM UTC

el_presidente wrote: post #22

ta12121 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL Opera is the browser that adheres to the specifications most closely, and yet it is the least usable. Why? Because web developers don't test with it. Specs are irrelevant. Testing is relevant, and testing is caused by marketshare.

Yeah, Google's reverse image search is unusable with Opera... unless you change the user agent string and tell Google you're using Firefox. Then they whine about how Facebook and Apple are trying to destroy the open web.

Quick tip: On images.google.com, go to 'Quick preferences' (either F12 or right click on the page), hit 'Edit site preference', then set the user agent under the 'Network' tab.

I'm tempted to do this for all google related services, because they are such browser prudes.

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#98

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 9:45 AM UTC

ta12121 wrote: post #13

Xcelerate wrote: post #5

This whole "supporting browsers" thing should be gone, and very soon. There are specifications that browser makers should follow, and if they are all supporting those specifications, then they well be well-supported. The only differentiator between page rendering among browsers should really be speed. (I believe Opera is actually one of the browsers that adheres most closely to the specs.)

LOL Opera is the browser that adheres to the specifications most closely, and yet it is the least usable. Why? Because web developers don't test with it. Specs are irrelevant. Testing is relevant, and testing is caused by marketshare.

[deleted]

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#99

Post by cyclinghacker » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 10:35 AM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #54

mbrubeck wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not. Opera has been around for over fifteen years -- longer than Firefox, Safari, or Chrome. It's been around as long as Internet Explorer. But their main revenue source is mobile, where they have been the #1 browser vendor for a long time. Opera accounts for over 20% of mobile browser page views worldwide. The desktop market is less of a focus for Opera than for other vendors. Even…

I am still technically correct as 15 is more than 2. But that still leaves the question, why hasn't it been picked up?

Simple, back when the browser shake-up was going on (early 2000s) Opera was a paid browser, or a free browser with banner advertisements. It was also Windows only for a long time. I don't remember exactly when they came to their senses and admitted that no one pays for a web browser, but by that point it was too late.

Re: Google Service Drops Support for Opera

#100

Post by esbwhat » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 11:11 AM UTC

luriel wrote: post #91

recoiledsnake wrote: post #32

When I do web development, I test in Opera at the very end after I have fixed all issues in IE, Firefox, Chrome and Safari and guess what? I never had to make one tweak for Opera. Ever. Opera has almost a religious focus on coding to standards. While I bet there are specific issues with implementation, whatever happened to the concept of coding to the standard and let browsers do their work? Do Blogger features reall…

> This is a throwback to the days of "Best works in IE(TM)". Exactly, it seems that a whole new generation of web developers have forgotten history. Is sad that when we thought we had left behind those awful times, and that we had learned the lesson, we have Google kicking us back to the dark ages of the web. If standards are worth anything, all browsers that follow them should be supported equally.

The c't had a good opening "story" about this a couple months back. I, for one, will keep using firefox even if chrome is tempting, because I haven't forgotten what happened the last time someone got a monopoly on the browser market: The stiflement of web evolution for a decade.

And make no mistake, IE6 was revolutionary at it's time too.

Google is abusing it's monopoly on search and other things to convert people to chrome. Good, in many ways (if you visit google with an old IE, it displays a chrome ad). But now that I think about it, I'd rather have to bear IE for a year or two than give google the power over what becomes part of the web and what doesn't. Anyone remember flash?