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Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

nytimes.com

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Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#41

Post by vacri »

Iscariott wrote: post #20
billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

That's a great analogy.

The problem with this analogy is that it's actually the wrong way around. The problem firearms are the handguns - the US has 17k murders per year, 13k of them are with firearms, 11k of those are with handguns. Much as people like debating about rifles, it's handguns that do the work.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#42

Post by ArcticCelt »

Cushman wrote: post #9
ktizo wrote: post #4

Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely u…

I'm a pretty savvy internet user, and I'll confess to having used Mega for the odd video when nothing else was working, but I've never heard much about Kim before this case. Now he's a folk hero. Considering the weakness of Mega's position, this case couldn't have gone much worse for the copyright industry.

What's impressive is that he went from relative obscurity to been known not only from the startup crowd like here but also from the more mainstream tech crowd that populate sites like reddit.

They maybe managed to shutdown and destroy his business but they also involuntarily made sure that his next business venture will have an enormous amount of free publicity by been talked about on all tech blogs and social news web sites.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#43

Post by nottombrown »

ktizo wrote: post #4

Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely u…

Whatever PR firm has been advising him has been doing a superb job. See the framing of his newfound love of social media:

"Asked why he had become so active online, Mr. Dotcom said he was using the most efficient way to respond to all the good-will messages he had received."

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#44

Post by billpatrianakos »

jboggan wrote: post #24
billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

Not to get too pedantic, but you might want to amend that to "9mm handgun" or something similar. Apache helicopter gunships shoot 30mm projectiles! But to address your argument - a large portion of the gun lobby and gun enthusiasts aren't necessarily uncomfortable with just a handgun for defense, but they are uncomfortable with a technically ignorant government deciding what is sufficient and allowable for that purpo…

As you can tell, I don't know much about guns.

You've got a point but I can honestly say I can trust a judge, prosecutor, or a 5 month old to tell the difference between MegaUpload and Dropbox. What MegaUpload was encouraging was too obvious to even argue about.

That said, you are right. My argument was geared more toward MegaUpload defenders who, for some reason, have deluded themselves into thinking they're defending an innocent service and turning Kim Dotcom into some sort of freedom fighting hero. Your stance on copyright law is irrelevant here because what MegaUpload was all about is illegal in most first world countries. If you think MegaUpload was "just a file storage service" you've got to be lying to yourself.

However, your argument is important because not all cases are so cut and dry. So yeah, in the future it is important to keep an eye on the Feds and make sure the law and due process are upheld because I'll concede that if people are lax (like I am in this case with MegaUpload) then in the future it might be a truly innocent Dropbox that's next. You never know.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#45

Post by cabalamat »

J3L2404 wrote: post #38
tomjen3 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see NZ being cast as villians here. At most as the people oppressed by the US (who are the real villans). But US troops on foreign soil is properly over what they would accept.

NZ is being oppressed by the US? Like the whole pirate revolution fantasy, there is no basis in reality. IP is not going away anytime soon, at least in free countries. The pirate party would have to be, at least in the US, one of the two major parties and even then it would be difficult. Either people can choose how to license their work or there are no licenses. I don't see a middle ground.

> NZ is being oppressed by the US?

Of course it is. What is the Trans-Pacific Partnership if it isn't the latest attempt to bludgeon other countries in toeing the USA's (i.e. the MAFIAA's) line in IP?

> Like the whole pirate revolution fantasy, there is no basis in reality.

There are currently Pirates elected in 7 countries, which is good going for a movement that's only been in existance for 6 years. Other politicians, for example in the EU, are already modifying their policies to take account of the Pirates' popularity, which they wouldn't be doing if it was just a "fantasy".

> IP is not going away anytime soon, at least in free countries.

IP in its present form is clearly going away. Consider shows like Game of Thrones which more people downloaded than legally watched. While IP law will change slower than IP reality (because law is a trailing indicator), it too is likely to change as Pirates win power in Europe.

> The pirate party would have to be, at least in the US, one of the two major parties and even then it would be difficult.

The Pirate Party wouldn't have to win in the US at all. If it gains power in Europe, it'll have the clout of the world's largest economy behind it, and the USA will no longer be able to impose its IP laws on the rest of the world.

Nor will the USA be able to prevent unauthorised copying via websites in other countries, unless it disconnects its internet from the rest of the world's, which isn't practical.

> Either people can choose how to license their work or there are no licenses.

Once a work is published, it will increasingly be out of the control of the creator. Savvy creators, such as Amanda Palmer or Cory Doctorow, already realise that and have adapted to the new reality. Those who refuse to adapt will go excinct.

The exception to this is works that are programs, which will be able to use DRM systems running on the internet, such as Valve's Steam.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#46

Post by billpatrianakos »

vacri wrote: post #41
Iscariott wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great analogy.

The problem with this analogy is that it's actually the wrong way around. The problem firearms are the handguns - the US has 17k murders per year, 13k of them are with firearms, 11k of those are with handguns. Much as people like debating about rifles, it's handguns that do the work.

You politely ask people not to get pedantic then the majority of the discussion becomes pedantry. Instead of replying one by one I'll lump a lot of responses here.

1. The millimeters on my defensive gun were very off. I don't know about guns. Just imagine a typical handgun.

2. The handgun analogy is not about how much damage one causes over the other nor is it about the severity of the consequences. The point is that we can all relate to the average homeowner buying a handgun for protection and most people can understand that and trust that your neighbor isn't buying it to commit crimes. But when your neighbor buys an assault rifle and claims its for self defense you start to wonder because we all know, on average, most of the time, it's common sense, stop being fucking pedantic, that assault rifles are not for self defense and when someone claims that it should set off alarm bells just like when someone says "I only used MegaUpload to share Excel spreadsheets with my coworkers and so did everyone else I know or have ever heard of" you've got to wonder if that person is living in a bubble or just straight up delusional.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#47

Post by vacri »

billpatrianakos wrote: post #46
vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this analogy is that it's actually the wrong way around. The problem firearms are the handguns - the US has 17k murders per year, 13k of them are with firearms, 11k of those are with handguns. Much as people like debating about rifles, it's handguns that do the work.

You politely ask people not to get pedantic then the majority of the discussion becomes pedantry. Instead of replying one by one I'll lump a lot of responses here. 1. The millimeters on my defensive gun were very off. I don't know about guns. Just imagine a typical handgun. 2. The handgun analogy is not about how much damage one causes over the other nor is it about the severity of the consequences. The point is that…

The point is that we can all relate to the average homeowner buying a handgun for protection

Can we? Where I live, buying a pistol or an assault rifle for self-defence would get you viewed the same by your neighbours. I'd actually be more concerned if I heard someone on the street brag about their pistol because it's much easier to carry about secretely than a rifle.

This reminds me of the term 'security theatre', which is why I think the analogy is a bad analogy.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#48

Post by [deleted] »

J3L2404 wrote: post #21
tomjen3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has played the media at least as well as his lawyers have done in court, but you also have to factor in that people are pretty fucking tired of the copyright industry being so heavy handed. Breaking copyright is so normal, at least among those younger than 40 that almost any reponse would be seen as too heavy handed. Choppers and armed police, however are completely of the scale.

>Choppers and armed police, however are completely of the scale. But wasn't that NZ's decision. I think a good deal of people believe it was US troops.

[deleted]

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#49

Post by accountswu »

ktizo wrote: post #7
aninteger wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hollywood should do what Hollywood does best. I'm still waiting for the movie "based on a true story".

Is that the version where Kim is a muslim cleric who is trying to destroy America from a secret volcano in Iceland?

And Biden is going to save America from Barrack Hussein? :)

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/kim-dotcom-says-m...

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#50

Post by GoodIntentions »

modoc wrote: post #22
billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

A 35mm handgun would be hilarious:)

and you just _know_ some people would be ordering them 6 months before they were available.. .. never mind that to avoid damaging yourself you'd have to load it so light the bullet would be visible in flight - I am sure it would sell.
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