Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero • Hacker News Board

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#21

Post by J3L2404 » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:09 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #17

ktizo wrote: post #4

Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely u…

He has played the media at least as well as his lawyers have done in court, but you also have to factor in that people are pretty fucking tired of the copyright industry being so heavy handed. Breaking copyright is so normal, at least among those younger than 40 that almost any reponse would be seen as too heavy handed. Choppers and armed police, however are completely of the scale.

>Choppers and armed police, however are completely of the scale.

But wasn't that NZ's decision. I think a good deal of people believe it was US troops.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#22

Post by modoc » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:13 PM UTC

billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

ktizo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws My understanding is that what some of the users were doing was possibly illegal under US law, but probably unlawful most everywhere else, and that what he was doing was possibly unlawful but not illegal pretty much everywhere, including in the US. Knowingly facilitating copyright infringement is a charge that can be leveled at every industry that provides…

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

A 35mm handgun would be hilarious:)

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#23

Post by ktizo » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:13 PM UTC

billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

ktizo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws My understanding is that what some of the users were doing was possibly illegal under US law, but probably unlawful most everywhere else, and that what he was doing was possibly unlawful but not illegal pretty much everywhere, including in the US. Knowingly facilitating copyright infringement is a charge that can be leveled at every industry that provides…

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

It might well have obviously been a file sharing service, but by your metaphor, every hi-fi featuring tape to tape recording was at the very least a Browning Automatic Rifle.

[edit] Also, in a hell of a lot of cultures around the world possession of a handgun is not considered defensive, but lets ignore that point as it would break your metaphor, and not only did you politely ask me not to, but you also probably have a handgun.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#24

Post by jboggan » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:14 PM UTC

billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

ktizo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws My understanding is that what some of the users were doing was possibly illegal under US law, but probably unlawful most everywhere else, and that what he was doing was possibly unlawful but not illegal pretty much everywhere, including in the US. Knowingly facilitating copyright infringement is a charge that can be leveled at every industry that provides…

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

Not to get too pedantic, but you might want to amend that to "9mm handgun" or something similar. Apache helicopter gunships shoot 30mm projectiles!

But to address your argument - a large portion of the gun lobby and gun enthusiasts aren't necessarily uncomfortable with just a handgun for defense, but they are uncomfortable with a technically ignorant government deciding what is sufficient and allowable for that purpose. Similarly, what's to say a precedent established with Megaupload cannot be used to hamstring or shut down Dropbox or similar services? Though you can understand and make the distinction between the intents of the two services, can you trust a judge to properly frame why Megaupload is bad and Dropbox is good? Or for prosecutors, lawyers, and the assembled IP industry to not leverage any legal precedent to shut down what they feel like?

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#25

Post by aidenn0 » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:19 PM UTC

pgrote wrote: post #19

revelation wrote: post #5

This article fails to mention that the FBI has illegally copied and extradited out of NZ jurisdiction the vast amount of data gained in the illegal raid on his home.

This is what amazes me. For a civil case another country has just run all over another country's laws.

It's a criminal case actually; commercial copyright infringement is criminal in the US (non-commercial is civil).

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#26

Post by Ralith » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

ktizo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws My understanding is that what some of the users were doing was possibly illegal under US law, but probably unlawful most everywhere else, and that what he was doing was possibly unlawful but not illegal pretty much everywhere, including in the US. Knowingly facilitating copyright infringement is a charge that can be leveled at every industry that provides…

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

> A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection

Makes for pretty fun sport shooting, though.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#27

Post by ericdykstra » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

billpatrianakos wrote: post #14

ktizo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws My understanding is that what some of the users were doing was possibly illegal under US law, but probably unlawful most everywhere else, and that what he was doing was possibly unlawful but not illegal pretty much everywhere, including in the US. Knowingly facilitating copyright infringement is a charge that can be leveled at every industry that provides…

That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean).…

Dropbox and Box are file syncing/backup services, and MegaUpload is a filesharing service. Both types have different legitimate use-cases. Youtube is also very much about sharing movies and music, but since youtube videos are publicly viewable, it's easier to monitor and take down. How is MegaUpload supposed to monitor a bunch of passworded "VacationPhotos.rar" files? Just because it might be a Hollywood movie doesn't mean they can take it down on suspicion.

There are music artists that have put their own albums on MegaUpload as a central place where anyone can come download. There are people like myself who put a collection of high res photos in an archive and hosted it on MegaUpload for any of my family or friends to download. Analogizing MegaUpload to an assault rifle is saying that there's no reason for civilians to have access to it, where there are actually many legitimate use cases for using a filesharing service for mass distribution.

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#28

Post by mquander » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:22 PM UTC

shin_lao wrote: post #8

ktizo wrote: post #4

Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely u…

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws, but is it that immoral? The problem to me is the amount of physical violence he endured, compared to the amount of physical violence he caused. It's as if the police would beat down someone who didn't tip a street performer.

"Amount of physical violence" is an unreasonable way to measure proportionality of punishment. Someone who destroys $10 million in economic value has probably done much more harm than someone who drags you to a jail cell for a few nights. (Disclaimer: I think Megaupload is creating value, not destroying it.)

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#29

Post by zitterbewegung » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:26 PM UTC

shin_lao wrote: post #8

ktizo wrote: post #4

Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero. If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely u…

What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws, but is it that immoral? The problem to me is the amount of physical violence he endured, compared to the amount of physical violence he caused. It's as if the police would beat down someone who didn't tip a street performer.

Morality and legality are two very different concepts. You can do something that is illegal that is moral and you can do something legal that is immoral..

Re: Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero

#30

Post by Gring » Tue, Jul 03, 2012, 6:33 PM UTC

aw3c2 wrote: post #18

Be aware that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz is missing the bits about how he ran some piracy and carding BBSs back in the days and then tried to sneak his way out of trouble by telling the law all about the users. I would not be surprised if Megaupload kept logs of everything for this purpose as well.

That's very interesting. Do you have any sources to back this up?